Hunting land/Ranch purchase thoughts.

[bradmacmt]

This is fairly typical from guys "back East" - trying to buy land in the West to hunt on. It just doesn't work that way here. Even if you could buy 240 acres with water and accessibility for $1,000,000 (which you can't). Back East you need to control the land and hold animals on it. Here you need many thousands of acres to do that. Even then, you won't "hold" animals without irrigated crops.

You can buy 240 acres of sage flats, off the grid, with seasonal accessibility in many places in the West, but absolutely nothing like you're describing. What you need in the West is a place to hang your hat - the states public lands are your oyster. That's how you should be thinking.

But there's absolutely zero chance buying 240+ acres with elk on it within your "wants parameters"... you need a budget starting at many, many millions.

 

[Hnthrdr]

You want an inflation kick in the nuts story haha my good buddies dad bought a sweet property in southern wyo in the early 90’s 1200 acres for 120k has deer and turkey and migratory elk haha it’s probably 2.5 million today

 

[Tmac]

I know a landowner that has managed to keep elk on about 320 acres in NE OR. He has 70 acres of alfalfa, multiple springs, borders Nat. Forest and has done a nice job thinning out about 2/3 of the timber. Left several dense bedding areas and opened up the rest a bit so it can grow some feed. Rare to find all that on such a small place east of the Cascade Mts.

Much more doable in W. OR as far as water and feed. Water is all over and open green fields attract the Roosevelt’s. So much is covered in dense brush/forest they will often hold near good graze. The deer, Blacktails, are more edge creatures, needing browse. Thin out some trees/brush, plant some apple trees, and you’ll likely hold deer there. No need for landowner tags in most cases, as general seasons are common on the west side. But at least 160 acres under current rules would qualify for landowner tags, should it move to a draw.

 

[bradmacmt]

I know a landowner that has managed to keep elk on about 320 acres in NE OR. He has 70 acres of alfalfa, multiple springs, borders Nat. Forest and has done a nice job thinning out about 2/3 of the timber. Left several dense bedding areas and opened up the rest a bit so it can grow some feed. Rare to find all that on such a small place east of the Cascade Mts.

And I guarantee, were that place for sale, it would be far North of 1 million dollars.

 

[cnelk]

I also dont think WY gives LO tags unless you have a minimum of 600 acres. Someone please correct me if wrong there.

You need 160 acres to qualify for LO tags in Wyoming. But thats not all, they also use a study to determine how many animals actually use the property to see if you qualify

 

[Silveroddo]

This is fairly typical from guys "back East" - trying to buy land in the West to hunt on. It just doesn't work that way here. Even if you could buy 240 acres with water and accessibility for $1,000,000 (which you can't). Back East you need to control the land and hold animals on it. Here you need many thousands of acres to do that. Even then, you won't "hold" animals without irrigated crops.

You can buy 240 acres of sage flats, off the grid, with seasonal accessibility in many places in the West, but absolutely nothing like you're describing. What you need in the West is a place to hang your hat - the states public lands are your oyster. That's how you should be thinking.

But there's absolutely zero chance buying 240+ acres with elk on it within your "wants parameters"... you need a budget starting at many, many millions.

I've spent the last 10 years bobbing around Idaho, Montana, and parts of Wyoming and that's pretty much my mentality, at this point I don't even want to own a place to hang my hat because the areas I enjoy can be several hundred miles apart. I'm narrowing down a possible area to set up home base, but boon docking and a fifth wheel are still pretty viable options.

 

[Tmac]

And I guarantee, were that place for sale, it would be far North of 1 million dollars.

Most likely. Water with water rights adds substantial value in dry country.

 

[IAm_Not_Lost]

There are 0 land owner tag options for AZ land holders? Ie you have to draw tags like everyone else. Draw odds are abysmal for NR in AZ you will likely not hunt your land 2x in a row, if it’s a decent elk unit you will hunt it 1x in your life probably.

Gotchya. Sorry, I thought your comment had more to do with just ownership laws, adverse possession laws, public land, right of way stuff etc etc.

Yes, still have to follow draw regs.

 

[280twoeighty]

Thanks guys. Some good thoughts. There is no right or wrong answer. Every situation is different and unique.

Rich M, thanks for the encouragement. Congrats on finding your place and getting your first buck on it. That is a great accomplishment.

 

[BishBeCool]

Just an opinion…
That money might be better spent in a white tail state on the right 40+ acres,Wisconsin, Iowa etc… west is a public land deal brother. You could buy the right 5 acres and have elk pass through on occasion or you could buy 250 and see elk on occasion. The idea is romantic (I think we all agree we think about it) but the west has everything you want for the cost of tags. Your budget can get you a lot of amazing hunts in the Yukon, AK and BC. Best of luck

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Your best bet is to find land that borders public land. That might require downsizing to 5-10 acres (which is still expensive as hell out here). I know plenty of guys that only own a handful of acres that can still shoot elk/deer from their porch because they abut against some nice public property that has limited access. Lots of landlocked quarter sections where only adjacent parcels can enter too.

 

[wildwilderness]

Other states will guarantee or give preference in draws to landowners to get deer/elk etc tags based on how much land you own.

It is particularly important for Non-Resident landowners who would otherwise not get a tag often. More of a problem in the West, and now Midwest where tags are limited and getting worse

 

[dgfavor]

Thinking minimum of 240 acres on up.

Obviously lop tags for deer and or elk are what matters.

FYI, in ID, 240 acres won't get you into the LAP draw - starts at 640...it might get you into the secondary draw which I think had no tags even available this year...at least there were none in my unit after first drawing. Also in ID, just being in the LAP pool doesn't guarantee a tag - it's a draw just like the regular controlled draw and I get just as irritated when I whiff in it as I do the general.

I say go for it if it's your dream...probably best purchase I've ever made fwiw:

Elk from my place this year:

Deer from my place this year:

A place that generates some income from ag/timber/grazing/etc. can be beneficial as well, i.e. business/rec property. I cash lease out ag acres:

 

[Hnthrdr]

Gotchya. Sorry, I thought your comment had more to do with just ownership laws, adverse possession laws, public land, right of way stuff etc etc.

Yes, still have to follow draw regs.

Nope, family has 700 ish acres out side of Prescott, they have owned it since 1870… haven’t hunted it yet as I’m accruing points as a NR, heck can’t even shoot the numerous javalina that are constantly around without drawing a tag for them…

 

[Erict]

If not familiar, you should at least know the basics of the 1031 exchange program and whether it may apply to your current or future situation. Good luck.

What is a 1031 exchange?​

A 1031 exchange is a way for real estate investors to sell a property and reinvest the proceeds in a similar (or “like-kind”) property, deferring capital gains taxes that would otherwise be due upon the sale. It is named after Section 1031 of the IRS tax code and is also known as a “like-kind exchange.”

While a 1031 exchange does not eliminate taxes on investment property gains, it delays the tax burden, which can allow you to invest in higher value properties and continue growing your equity. But it’s important to keep in mind that a 1031 exchange is a complex maneuver. To ensure the exchange qualifies under Section 1031, you must follow a strict set of rules, and work with a qualified intermediary (QI), an independent third party responsible for holding the funds and handling the documentation involved in the transaction.

 

[Will_m]

I know this has been discussed some and I have searched the archives some as well. But thought I would get some new thoughts.
Thiis is not a new thing for me. Been thinking about it for years. It is getting to be the time to do or shelve the idea for good soon.
Thinking minimum of 240 acres on up. Some infrastructure (shop, cabin, barn, etc.) would be nice but not necessary. Water and cover and varied terrain are probably at the top of the list. Water could be a well, spring, creek, river, drainage, pond, etc. Access is also up there. Does not need to be a paved road, lol. The don't want list is no windmills near or cell towers or transmission power lines. Don't want to be next to an outfitter who pumps clients in and out non stop. Outside of that I am pretty open.
Obviously lop tags for deer and or elk are what matters.
Budget would be $350k up to $1 million at the very top. I have been looking for years but not hard shopping as the timing was not there. The next 4 to eight month will be the window. Owner financing is not necessary but in the short term could be helpful.

Please feel free to pm to discuss off board.

Thanks all.


Wy, MT. No. NM, CO., Id., E, Or. NV,, UT.

I can’t imagine you are going to that kind of acreage for 350k unless it’s trash.

 

[wildwilderness]

FYI, in ID, 240 acres won't get you into the LAP draw - starts at 640...it might get you into the secondary draw which I think had no tags even available this year...at least there were none in my unit after first drawing. Also in ID, just being in the LAP pool doesn't guarantee a tag - it's a draw just like the regular controlled draw and I get just as irritated when I whiff in it as I do the general.

I say go for it if it's your dream...probably best purchase I've ever made fwiw:

Looks like a nice place that’s working out for you.

Please share how many acres and cost per acre at current market value.

Also please share the real numbers you make on Farming/Grazing so we can see what the real profits would be to offset the amount it would cost to buy. (

That is the reality someone would face to get into a property like yours. I know from experience a few thousand in a grazing lease and farming doesn’t come close to covering $1M mortgage, insurance, and taxes

The problem we see with the OP is all the stipulations to fit into the budget mentioned…

 

[RockAndSage]

That is the reality someone would face to get into a property like yours. I know from experience a few thousand in a grazing lease and farming doesn’t come close to covering $1M mortgage, insurance, and taxes

The problem we see with the OP is all the stipulations to fit into the budget mentioned…

That's the thing, is back East, it's really common for people to buy a small chunk of land to hunt it and just not need to make it turn any revenue at all, let alone a profit. That seems to be the disconnect when people from there think about doing this out here.

Everything's so green and dense in foliage, the carrying capacity for wildlife is just off the charts per acre compared to anything out West, until you get to Blacktail country, or some extremely premium places in Colorado. It's just an entirely different thing.

 

[Fowl Play]

You can definitely buy a very productive piece of property with your $1mil, but it is going to require some serious leg work. Learning areas that hold animals, travel routes, identify a nearby property that meets the criteria, then ensure those things won’t change if adjacent property owners sell. You’d be looking for a protected piece of property adjacent to tons of public land or massive ranch essentially.

Have a buddy who spent much more than your budget on a property. Elk/deer are only on it in good numbers for a small fraction of the year during migration. On the flip side, with the money he spent , he probably could have done multiple “once in a lifetime trips” every year for 50 years.

I’d think on it and be careful. Not to discourage you, but to make sure you get what you want.

 

[280twoeighty]

A few thoughts. Hunting is not my passion like many here. Even though I could I would never spend thousands on guided or some kind of guaranteed harvest tag hunts.. That is not my deal. I would love to do a moose hunt in Canada though but doubt that will ever happen. But maybe. So that would be the exception.
I live in a great state in the NW US. I do hunt but am not a horn hunter. Meaning I hunt for the meat. This year I passed on three decent but smaller bucks than I like to harvest and did not fill my deer or elk tag. Not a huge deal. I have several things going this year that honestly are way more important than hunting so it was not a season I got to do a whole lot of hunting.

You guys have made some great points and I have thought about many of them. Some not, so glad to read your thoughts.

Thanks Fowl play. I agree with many things you said.

I am looking at several properties now that kind of meet much of my criteria. One in particular that I would need to vet extensively and might buy if it all panned out but as I said I won't be doing anything for approx 4-6 months if then.