Hunting bullet performance - prefer through or a grenade inside?

[hereinaz]

The kids make fun of my choice for an old bullet like a Partition or even an Accubond with an old soul, so I remind them if every generation doesn’t produce something better the world is doomed. With 2 million big game animals taken in North America every year, and decades and decades of bullet development time, why is it the only changes seem to be in marketing of cartridges that simply duplicate old cartridge performance with more twist, and bullets with better aerodynamics and putting a cute different color tip on everything, as if that’s new or an improvement. I’m disappointed there aren’t clearly better bullets - if the current generation of bullets were clearly better folks wouldn’t have to try so hard to try and convince each other, it would simply be obvious, and threads like this wouldn’t exist.

You are just flat wrong to say the new calibers duplicate the old ones. SAAMI specs show different throats for longer high BC bullets and faster twists, among other things.

Look at a ballistic table.

It’s statements like yours there, in many variations, that create the need for conversation to eliminate the confusion.

 

[Scoutfan]

I want both. A Partition is the closest to ideal bulls that I’ve seen for this. I don’t understand why Nosler hasn’t modernized the Partition to have a better BC.


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The accubond is as close in performance to a modernized partition as I have found except maybe the federal terminal assent.

 

[TaperPin]

You are just flat wrong to say the new calibers duplicate the old ones. SAAMI specs show different throats for longer high BC bullets and faster twists, among other things.

Look at a ballistic table.

It’s statements like yours there, in many variations, that create the need for conversation to eliminate the confusion.

You are correct about confusion and people should learn more about what makes a good cartridge and chamber dimensions. There’s nothing special about any of them, other than Hornady has convinced an entire generation that they should be buying SAAMI factory rifles in PRC and Creedmoor cartridges. The generations of “not following the crowds and not believing Fudd lore” has been tricked into being SAAMI marketing sheep. Fast twist barrels and throats any size you want have been around forever - the desire to buy a rifle off the rack and not reload is what’s new. Having throats adjusted doesn’t even require taking the rifle out of the stock. Nothing wrong with heavy for caliber bullets, but most shooters have bought into the marketing without an actual need for them. If someone thinks something new is cool that’s reason enough to get a new gun, but it’s marketing driven.

22 Creed isn’t anything more special than a fast twist 22-250 AI or 220 Swift.
6 creed doesn’t do anything a fast twist 6mm rem does.
6.5-08 has been around in long range match rifles since the 308 came out, and the 260 Rem had a long successful track record in factory or custom barrels before the 6.5 Creed was dreamed up to sell rifles and ammo.

I see it as a race to the bottom - dumbing down shooters so they stop reloading and only buy SAAMI rifles.

 

[hereinaz]

You are correct about confusion and people should learn more about what makes a good cartridge and chamber dimensions. There’s nothing special about any of them, other than Hornady has convinced an entire generation that they should be buying SAAMI factory rifles in PRC and Creedmoor cartridges. The generations of “not following the crowds and not believing Fudd lore” has been tricked into being SAAMI marketing sheep. Fast twist barrels and throats any size you want have been around forever - the desire to buy a rifle off the rack and not reload is what’s new. Having throats adjusted doesn’t even require taking the rifle out of the stock. Nothing wrong with heavy for caliber bullets, but most shooters have bought into the marketing without an actual need for them. If someone thinks something new is cool that’s reason enough to get a new gun, but it’s marketing driven.

22 Creed isn’t anything more special than a fast twist 22-250 AI or 220 Swift.
6 creed doesn’t do anything a fast twist 6mm rem does.
6.5-08 has been around in long range match rifles since the 308 came out, and the 260 Rem had a long successful track record in factory or custom barrels before the 6.5 Creed was dreamed up to sell rifles and ammo.

I see it as a race to the bottom - dumbing down shooters so they stop reloading and only buy SAAMI rifles.

You have a very extreme and unique set of basic beliefs and opinions here.

"dumbing down shooters so they stop reloading and only buy SAAMI rifles"
"Hornady has convinced an entire generation that they should be buying SAAMI factory rifles"
"the desire to buy a rifle off the rack and not reload is what's new"

 

[TaperPin]

You have a very extreme and unique set of basic beliefs and opinions here.

"dumbing down shooters so they stop reloading and only buy SAAMI rifles"
"Hornady has convinced an entire generation that they should be buying SAAMI factory rifles"
"the desire to buy a rifle off the rack and not reload is what's new

The almighty dollar has over ridden common sense. Before Hornady, Remington tried to cover all existing niches with new SAUM’s or Ultramags, so they were no better. Winchester and Nosler try as they may, but there just isn’t enough marketing budget for them to move the needle. Everyone tries to get a piece of the pie - look at all the failed cartridges that have been marketed and didn’t really provide anything new. Look at all the proprietary cartridges from small shops that are being sold - all of them are profit driven.

A friend who is always belly-aching about belted cartridges - asked him to chamber a round and shoot it - then tell me if it’s a belted case or not. The anti belted movement is all part of selling more Hornady ammo. It could be said the emphasis on smaller cartridges is also marketing and profit driven. Hornady’s podcast is full of suggestions encouraging more profitable shooting habits, and it’s not even hidden - they fully admit the more people shoot the more money they make and they are in the business of making money.

 

[hereinaz]

The almighty dollar has over ridden common sense. Before Hornady, Remington tried to cover all existing niches with new SAUM’s or Ultramags, so they were no better. Winchester and Nosler try as they may, but there just isn’t enough marketing budget for them to move the needle. Everyone tries to get a piece of the pie - look at all the failed cartridges that have been marketed and didn’t really provide anything new. Look at all the proprietary cartridges from small shops that are being sold - all of them are profit drive

MERICA!