Hunting bullet performance - prefer through or a grenade inside?

[308ld]

Pass through.

 

[Ringbill27]

Edit - trying my hand at ttxs in 308 and will be switching to trophy copper slugs for next year.

If you haven’t tried the 130gr TTSX. I’ve been able to load it to 3150fps. Lightening to 300yds. I haven’t been able to tickle a deer with it yet. Because there doesn’t seem to be any in this state anymore, but it should be good.

 

[Formidilosus]

Finally, first bull elk down.

This fella made me work for it. I’ve been seeing red when it comes to a truly DIY general unit public land hunt. I’m a native Montanan, and have struck out time and time again trying to get a bull down. I never really had any interest in playing the private/public boundary game. Not saying...

rokslide.com

Nothing in that thread supports this statement-

The quartering shot taken with the 7 PRC and the poor performance of the factory load that was written up just a few weeks ago is a prime example - the mile the bull went after the shot would have been a monumental task to follow if it wasn’t for the snow. That would have been an easy killing shot with a bullet capable of better penetration and resulted in minimal tracking, but the bull made it a mile.

 

[TaperPin]

Nothing in that thread supports this statement-

That’s what I got out of it. A quartering bull was shot. The elk made it a mile. Every year these situations come up and I find it funny that so many jump on the bandwagon to defend the bullet. A lot of talk about how great bullets are, but a hit slightly off or a bad angle and all the sudden it’s not the bullet’s fault. Lol

You guys have to work pretty hard to defend all the bullets - nothing wrong with that, everyone needs a hobby, just seems weird.

 

[sndmn11]

That’s what I got out of it. A quartering bull was shot. The elk made it a mile. Every year these situations come up and I find it funny that so many jump on the bandwagon to defend the bullet. A lot of talk about how great bullets are, but a hit slightly off or a bad angle and all the sudden it’s not the bullet’s fault. Lol

You guys have to work pretty hard to defend all the bullets - nothing wrong with that, everyone needs a hobby, just seems weird.

What bullet was it?

 

[Article 4]

That’s what I got out of it. A quartering bull was shot. The elk made it a mile. Every year these situations come up and I find it funny that so many jump on the bandwagon to defend the bullet. A lot of talk about how great bullets are, but a hit slightly off or a bad angle and all the sudden it’s not the bullet’s fault. Lol

You guys have to work pretty hard to defend all the bullets - nothing wrong with that, everyone needs a hobby, just seems weird.

As good as manufacturing is these days, QC, materials etc...sometimes bullets fail. I have seen it happen to friends and it wont be the last time
Didn't listen to it so if this was answered, all good. My question is more about follow up. If the animal is still standing keep shooting!

 

[Formidilosus]

That’s what I got out of it. A quartering bull was shot. The elk made it a mile. Every year these situations come up and I find it funny that so many jump on the bandwagon to defend the bullet. A lot of talk about how great bullets are, but a hit slightly off or a bad angle and all the sudden it’s not the bullet’s fault. Lol

You guys have to work pretty hard to defend all the bullets - nothing wrong with that, everyone needs a hobby, just seems weird.

The dude didn’t respond with any details. He didn’t even look inside to see what happened. It wouldn’t matter what bullet it was- it could have been a mono and my response would still be the same. There is no information written at all to draw any conclusion from.

 

[roadrunner]

He didn’t even look inside to see what happened...There is no information written at all to draw any conclusion from.

And yet, you're drawing conclusions by making claims and assumptions with zero "evidence" to back it up.

You're simply guessing to support your opinion...

 

[Formidilosus]

And yet, you're drawing conclusions by making claims and assumptions with zero "evidence" to back it up.

You're simply guessing to support your opinion...

What? I made no statement about that elk or what happened.

The poster said “I shot elk, tracked it for a mile, shot it again. Didn’t open it up, look where I hit, or what happened”.

 

[35WhelenAI]

This has always been weird to me too.

It’s certainly a personal preference, but saying you want a blood trail for tracking when the other option doesn’t require tracking has never made sense.

Choosing a bullet for purposely shooting through shoulders or any shot angle, that makes some sense.

There is also a weird conflict with the idea of shooting non expanding bullets to reduce meat damage but then saying you don’t want to shoot grenades for ruining meat, when most of us choose to shoot them into the lungs.

Absolutely a pass through with a bullet that allows vital destruction. Bullets of sufficient weight, caliber and construction allow this, it's not rocket science. To limit one self to one or the other seems, well, limiting... Are we so far gone that it's full fragmentation inside the animal or bust based on what the preponderance of posts around here would argue? It seems like betting the farm on retirement with one strategy when there are other plans that cover more eventualities. Sure, go into retirement with the smallest nest egg you can and hope it works spectacularly...

Some grenade bullet animals as well as penetrating bullet animals don't just drop on the spot, and some do. This is reality in my experience.

Been reading of many fragmenting bullet kills and animals traveling a distance after the shot with no exit. The experiences about fragmenting bullets and animals traveling less on the whole are no more or no less than what I've had for 30+ years with penetrating bullets.

Meat destruction is horrible in the pictures folks are showing.

Typically there's a heart held up as a trophy of vital destruction, so it's all good, LOL... "Hey, look mom I'm on the internet, holding a heart".

Do you believe there is an option that doesn't require tracking? How many animals have you shot, as that comes across as an absolute statement I cannot concur with as to existing from my experience.

Looking at grenade/fragment bullet pictures on this forum, one can make a point blank educated decision as to whether the majority ruin more meat than penetrating bullets or not. With proof being in the pudding, pictures show those animals are all very dead no matter what bullet.

Appreciate the post and sharing experiences. With that, how much of what you have shared is experience and how much of this is questioning in search of answers as you didn't share a personal experience.

 

[TaperPin]

The dude didn’t respond with any details. He didn’t even look inside to see what happened. It wouldn’t matter what bullet it was- it could have been a mono and my response would still be the same. There is no information written at all to draw any conclusion from.

That’s fare. However, I don’t have any problem with something strange like that being the reason someone changes bullet. I’ve stood next to someone and seen less than ideal performance and without even getting up to the animal, let alone looking inside, known I’m glad to not be shooting that bullet. Many of these stories don’t see the light of day because without snow on the ground they’re never found.

 

[hereinaz]

Absolutely a pass through with a bullet that allows vital destruction. Bullets of sufficient weight, caliber and construction allow this, it's not rocket science. To limit one self to one or the other seems, well, limiting... Are we so far gone that it's full fragmentation inside the animal or bust based on what the preponderance of posts around here would argue? It seems like betting the farm on retirement with one strategy when there are other plans that cover more eventualities. Sure, go into retirement with the smallest nest egg you can and hope it works spectacularly...

Some grenade bullet animals as well as penetrating bullet animals don't just drop on the spot, and some do. This is reality in my experience.

Been reading of many fragmenting bullet kills and animals traveling a distance after the shot with no exit. The experiences about fragmenting bullets and animals traveling less on the whole are no more or no less than what I've had for 30+ years with penetrating bullets.

Meat destruction is horrible in the pictures folks are showing.

Typically there's a heart held up as a trophy of vital destruction, so it's all good, LOL... "Hey, look mom I'm on the internet, holding a heart".

Do you believe there is an option that doesn't require tracking? How many animals have you shot, as that comes across as an absolute statement I cannot concur with as to existing from experience.

Looking at grenade/fragment bullet pictures on this forum, one can make a point blank educated decision as to whether the majority ruin more meat than penetrating bullets or not. With proof being in the pudding, pictures show those animals are all very dead no matter what bullet.

Appreciate the post and sharing experiences. With that, how much of what you have shared is experience and how much of this is questioning in search of answers as you didn't share a personal experience.

Personal experience?

First of all, I recognize it’s an anecdotal amount. It’s important to you to know, so it’s 6 bulls, 1 cow, 3 caribou, 10 deer, and all but one died within 40 yards. One deer ran about 100.

Again, the arguments are pros/cons based on personal preference. The effect and performance has finally been established with the help of crowd sourcing.

And, it takes a lot to unwind the arguments for and against.

For example, meat in the freezer. In all of my experiences, 100% recovery and I can only think of damage to 3 quarters that had any damage. That’s because of the choice for shot placement and precision of shot puts it through the lungs.

It’s also situational. Not one animal was shot on the run or in a hurry. Most were shot with a significant amount of time observing them and a good portion at long range. Half the bulls were shot beyond 500 yards. None were crazy shot angles.

Proponents of the shoot hard bullets through the shoulders to prevent them from running, they intentionally damage at least one quarter. But, they might have other shooting conditions unlike mine.

That’s the thing, they can’t apply the “save the meat” argument to my situation because I don’t ruin meat with my approach.

Again, that’s what weird, they make arguments that are counterintuitive and counterproductive when they apply it to everything.

I freely admit that some hunters have situations and preferences that are suitable for monos. But, don’t apply that logic and preference to my bullets.

Ultimately, that is the problem, the deep penetrating bullet has been the existing “common knowledge” or “popular wisdom” so the “new match bullet” movement is seen as wrong… Even Hornady, the marketing juggernaut that it is refuses to acknowledge ELDm as straight hunting killers.

I don’t care what anyone shoots, but did think it was weird the way arguments are phrased and structured.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Apologies on the way I came across, I wasn't picking up on that level of experience in your post and appreciate you setting me straight.

 

[coyotekilla]

I like grenades and here is why. I hate tracking, I can do it, but id rather avoid it. Also, let's say we are using a 6.5 whatever on whitetails. You can load a 160gr solid or a mono in them that will completely penetrate a moose, yet that same bullet is under performing on whitetails. If the bullet strikes the target at 2k fps and exits at 1900 fps, it failed to deliver the required terminal energy.
A 300 mag loaded with elk bullets will not deliver as much energy on a lung shot deer as a 308 loaded with a eldm will. The 300 destroys the 308 in available energy, but lacks the ability to apply the energy.

Perfection is breaking the near side shoulder, exploding the heart and or lungs, and the base just popping thru the far hide. Reality is the same bullet that fits in a 6.5 prc and fired at 60 yards, gets loaded into 6.5 grendels and fired at 300...

FYI I just took a 6.5 creed, loaded with 140 eldm's and flattened a doe at 355 today. No exit, no tracking, didn't move.

 

[Ncountry]

I voted for both. Imo, a bullet that fall out the other side or stops just under the hide is perfect. Give the animal 100% of the bullets energy.
I have a friend that insists on punching straight through everytime.

Easier to track, he says.
I'd rather just walk over to where I watched the animal fall over.

 

[35WhelenAI]

My thought is to stay away from terminal energy, that's going to take this thread somewhere, maybe nowhere, fast. Bullet performance is where it begins and ends, energy is a number but not a measure of lethality based many discussions around here.

 

[hereinaz]

Apologies on the way I came across, I wasn't picking up on that level of experience in your post and appreciate you setting me straight.

None needed. Good convo.

As for the grenading/pentration, personal experience showed me that I could even drop in caliber with match bullets and kill efficiently.

“Conventional wisdom” early on convinced me to shoot heavy bullets, but long range shots with reduced impact velocity were still getting massive wound channels. Of course, for elk, extra is not a bad thing.

I posted pics of one of the quarters damaged with my rifle. Granted it was a Coues but at 730 yards my 7mm 180 grain VLD was way too much. I immediately began building a smaller caliber rifle. https://rokslide.com/forums/posts/1982435/

As for match bullets grenading vs. exiting, my experience is that the majority of the game smaller than elk I got exits. I got exits on one or two bulls if I remembera couple bulls.

I believe, based on my limited experience, that the larger pieces of jacket are more likely to exit because they are sharp and will cut their way through rather than plow their way through like a mushroom. Especially the skin.

 

[FLS]

I prefer two holes with maximum tissue damage possible, so if they do go very far, especially in thick cover, they’re easier to find. One hole even with massive internal damage tends to bleed less IME. The first deer I shot this year was a prime example. 115 VLD from my 25-06 destroyed his vitals, but didn’t exit. With heart and lungs shredded, he still made it 50-60 yards into a hellish tangle before expiring in a small ditch. There was not a drop of blood between the point of impact and where he lay. The temp was 80-85 and humidity was 90%. Had I not been able to find that deer quickly he could have spoiled.