Hunting Big Game with Man’s Best Friend

[twofer]

What your able to do with a dog while out hunting is going to vary from state to state. Colorado, where I live, is pretty specific on the requirements for using a dog to track wounded game. If you have a dog, a rifle and a tag, without the permit, phone call, etc., I bet there is going to be a strong presumption that you are in violation of the regs. And especially since Colorado requires a fee-based permit, I doubt a Colorado game warden will let a person just skate on by.

The question, then, is, what specifically does a Colorado game warden have to witness in order to successfully charge a hunter with violating the rules against hunting with a dog? And, then, a person charged with a violation can plead any story they want (including BS that only sounds good on a hunting forum), but will a judge buy it?

JMHO

 

[Jason Snyder]

Aren't you a Judge or Breed Warden now?

Yes, I’m a JGV judge.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Is there any resources you recommend on training a dog to do this?

Not every dog has the mental stability for this. Some breeds do and some don’t.

Lots of exposure and correction to teach them how to remain composed.

 

[Reddirtrifleman]

My in laws had a dog that I took on one whitetail hunt and she behaved perfectly. Stayed close and quiet. Got a doe, she hung around and was excited during the processing. Would’ve taken her again if my in-laws didn’t get rid of her. I couldn’t take her because she didn’t get along with my toddler (tried for six weeks, they got into to many legitimate fights). Miss that dog.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Semi OT...but we have a mutual friend (I think) who has a United Blood Tracking Dog.....he finds the DDs struggle on blood. And I agree. Just too much HP and nose up and balls out. Hard to slow them down effectively.

Any exp. getting one to slow down and keep a nose down?

Mine is great on blood, he does tend to track a little fast. I’ve seen some dogs who were slow as a snail though. There is a lot of variation across the breed.

Getting one to slow down is a lot of training. Make the track hard and hold them to the route/track initially. Then later let them figure it out so long as they are coming back to it.

Sometimes folks get so hung up on making sure their dog is on the track they don’t learn to read their dog.

On the last elk track I did it was all about reading him. It was a nightmare of a track.

 

[sndmn11]

Colorado is straight up illegal to have a dog with you while you hunt. It’s unfortunate and I’d love to bring mine. You can get around it with the blood tracking license but I’m not sure how much effort that takes to get.

Your dog can be with you in CO, you just can't use the dog as a tool. Just like you don't have to wear orange when you aren't hunting. For the blood trailing, it's required to call CPW with several bits of information for every track, including what animal was shot, and then call when you are done, so I don't think buying the permit would be a practical way around using a dog to hunt.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Your dog can be with you in CO, you just can't use the dog as a tool. Just like you don't have to wear orange when you aren't hunting. For the blood trailing, it's required to call CPW with several bits of information for every track, including what animal was shot, and then call when you are done, so I don't think buying the permit would be a practical way around using a dog to hunt.

I wonder if you run into a GW having a bad day if he'd make an issue out of a person having a dog with them while they track on their own. I could see it potentially being a headache.

 

[buffybr]

My best friends have been hunting with me for almost 50 years...

 

[Wapiti1]

My current pooch does not have the temperament for it.

My previous dog, a Shih Tzu, was all about it. He fit neatly in my backpack for the walk in and would sit in the stand all day with me. I only took him during archery season here in Indiana. He'd perk up when a deer would approach way before I could hear it. And he could tell deer from squirrels and turkey.

After we would blood trail the deer, which he was worthless at by the way, he would jump up on top of it and stand there like king of the woods. All 16lbs of him owned that deer.

Jeremy

 

[sndmn11]

I wonder if you run into a GW having a bad day if he'd make an issue out of a person having a dog with them while they track on their own. I could see it potentially being a headache.

The CPW guys (and one woman) I know personally and the ones who I interacted professionally with when I worked in LE, I cannot foresee any inkling of an issue when someone is doing the right thing. "Bad day" isn't a thing for professional LE, and CPW is exemplary in all facets of what a govt LE agency should be.

Just like a person can consume an alcoholic beverage and operate a vehicle legally, there's a clear line that needs to be crossed for that act to become illegal. That LEO then needs to articulate suspicion, and then if they want to take things further, articulate probable cause that a reasonable person would agree is likely. In this analogy, one needs to be impaired to have crossed the line with alcohol and driving, and for the dog thing, one needs to use that dog on the hunt. Keep in mind for the alcohol thing there's a framework of what constitutes "impaired" its not arrest/cite on sight.

"I observed Bob with a dog and Bob appeared to be hunting" doesn't get there, while, " I observed a dog run ahead of Bob in a loop around a 6 acre patch of timber in a manner similar to how a livestock herding dog works. When the dog started this loop, bob sat down and appeared to ready his rifle on shooting sticks. Shortly thereafter, an elk emerged from the timber closest to Bob and Bob shot it. The dog emerged from the timber almost immediately in the same approximate location and travel path that the elk had taken, and trotted over to the downed elk. I then heard Bob say 'good doggo'"

I've got a brown dog that is about 6 months old who I hope is able to join me in the field. I'd take my 6yo griff, but she is gun shy. The law in CO is pretty clear that the dog needs to be used in hunting in order for it to be illegal. If I were out with a dog and hunting big game, there might be instances where I have to turn down a shot, or a stalk, or an opportunity because of the dog unintentionally helping/alerting whatever. That might mean if your dog goes on point walking 90degrees for 15 minutes and then sitting down for 30min, that might mean making it a habit of staying or back tying the dog when you want to track after a shot, that might mean calling a group of animals off limits when you are sitting glassing because the dog was staring a hole through them and you wanted to see what he was looking at. Regardless, just simply don't use the dog to hunt and you aren't anywhere near crossing the line into illegal territory.

 

[Decker9]

+5 points for neat gun and pretty bomber looking color phase bear.

Thanks! Not many mannlicher’s in that chambering anymore, 9.5x57 ( .375 rimless express).

 

[Macintosh]

I would have sworn its illegal where I live, but there is indeed languge about “using” the dog as opposed to a dog being present. Ive never heard of anyone hunting deer with a dog around here, but lots of people assume its illegal, including me. We have a lot of laws left over from the early 1900s when there really weren’t any deer left. Deer had to be re-introduced in this area because of commercial hunting and sheep farming, so I think there’s some real sensitivity around hunting techniques from that era, and some laws still on the books from it. It wouldn’t surprise me if the wardens had a softer view, but there’s some other stuff that seems sort of ambiguous to me where they take a pretty hard line, so I’m not really sure.

Tracking is clearer, only a licensed blood tracker may use a dog for tracking following some rules around reporting, etc. My understanding is its more than just “showing up” and requesting a license, but not really sure.

Ive been on a number of tracks with the tracking dogs though. It is super cool, there was a local couple here who had wire-haired dachsunds, can’t remember what they’re called. The first time they showed up a buddy of mine had shot a deer in my back yard from his archery stand, and we lost the track in some really thick, chest high goldenrod. Little dog named Musket followed that track right to the deer as fast as 6” legs can run, went two or 300 yards and the deer was still head up. The guy shot it, the tracker is allowed to carry a gun and dispatch the deer after hours here. It was a really small deer, but my buddy was super psyched to get it. The deal was that Musket got a slice of the heart when we found the deer. Afterward, we were commenting that we had a big bloodhound or something like that in mind and were sort of expecting a bigger dog, to which the guy replied “well, I was expecting a bigger deer!”

Tragically, that guy and his wife, and I believe their dogs were killed in a house fire several years ago. Their daughter still does blood tracking though, and I followed her on a track on a deer my wife shot badly. We followed that deer up and over across a hill, down the other side, across the road, where it jumped into the river. Never found that one, unfortunately.

 

[Wellsdw]

Semi OT...but we have a mutual friend (I think) who has a United Blood Tracking Dog.....he finds the DDs struggle on blood. And I agree. Just too much HP and nose up and balls out. Hard to slow them down effectively.

Any exp. getting one to slow down and keep a nose down?

I work a malinois on tracks, and he was as fast as any dog. Over time Ive slowed him down a lot since I started training. I’d say it’s a multi prong approach. First I’d start by gradually slowing my pace down over time. 2nd I’d start by laying short tracks with less scent. The dog will basically teach themselves to slow down in order to stay on the track. I’ve also tried using a prong collar with mine to slow him but only on training tracks and on open fields where he cant get wrapped up. I found the prong collar the least effective, but many k9 handlers use them for trailing. As far as keeping his nose down it often depends on the “trail” or scent field from
My understanding. This is due to the dog air scenting the trail. Vs true tracking which is different. All this to say the dog just has to figure out their own style. Best of luck with training

 

[30338]

My drahts alert me to game animals on any walk in the neighborhood. The CPW people I have been around would not hesitate to give me a ticket for having a hunting dog along on a big game hunt. Easy pass for me. I hate talking to those guys long enough to show them my signed license. I don't feel like exposing my self to grey areas of the law with the current crop of CPW people. YMMV.

 

[johnnycake]

Semi OT...but we have a mutual friend (I think) who has a United Blood Tracking Dog.....he finds the DDs struggle on blood. And I agree. Just too much HP and nose up and balls out. Hard to slow them down effectively.

Any exp. getting one to slow down and keep a nose down?

Check out Don Abney's book "Canine Tracking Guide, Training the All Purpose Tracker"

It breaks down the science of tracking and lays out a nice program/method to follow to build up a dog's tracking skills. One thing that it helped me understand is that not every dog tracks with it's nose to the ground. A dog can still be very effective tracking with it's head up.

 

[Dogone]

Google. Versatile dog training in Germany. Incredible what they train them to do. Check out use of a bringsel.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Love this thread!

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Google. Versatile dog training in Germany. Incredible what they train them to do. Check out use of a bringsel.

The bringsel is pretty cool. I know a couple of folks who’ve trained for that in the VGP utility test. Most places I hunt require on lead blood tracking so that’s pretty useless for me.

 

[3325]

I've not tried it but I would love to.

I've watched several fascinating videos on YouTube about scout dogs in Vietnam. These were German Shepherds that alerted, not tracked. The things they did were amazing and their bond with their handlers was incredible.

I'm convinced a Shepherd could be trained to alert to the nearby presence of big game, while staying at your side and being quiet. I suspect they might provide an extra measure of protection in Grizzly country too.

I'm sure other breeds can also do it, but Shepherds certainly have a proven combat record as scouts.

I look forward to the day when my living situation allows me to have another German Shepherd.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Just be sure if you are using the dog to specifically alert you, and assist you, it is legal.

Yes, the bond you form with a dog you hunt with all the time, and in different situations is quite amazing. The only downside to getting another Drahthaar was having to leave one home on big game hunts. Two is manageable, but not ideal.