Howa Superlite, 308, 16", aluminum bottom metal, detailed stock review and bedding

[Bidwell]

Some additional photos.

View attachment 754276
Gun weight without rail and with factory plastic bottom metal, no mag. The aftermarket aluminum bottom metal with mag body can be seen in the background.

View attachment 754275
Stock color with added brown and gray sponge design.

View attachment 754277
Chips (?) in the stock that were painted over. Seems to me that as long as Stocky's is painting a stock and not leaving it with a smooth carbon finish they are fine with whatever cosmetic defects the stock has. Their website sells blemished carbon fiber stocks (always out of stock), but I bet they use the majority of them for their textured paint jobs since they won't be too noticeable.

View attachment 754280

The top rail that comes with the gun, scratches on it from where it rubbed against some part of the barreled action. It comes taped near the barreled action, both on a piece of cardboard within a box, wrapped in a couple of places with cellophane like packaging. It weighed 1.7oz if memory serves, so almost the same weight as both Talley rings alone.

Thanks for your time! Again, I hope it's helpful.

Hi, thanks for this post. Got the superlite in 308 and having some issues with the stock. When I place the barreled action in the stock there's probably a quarter inch teeter that causes the barreled action to slip maybe too far into the stock when fully torqued to 30 in lbs. This causes the barrel to have some pretty significant contact with the forend of the stock. Would you have any suggestions for this situation? Howa said I could send back to them but it will take at Lear 3 months, could send it to Oregunsmithing, that's a month but sounds like they have a lot of experience with superlites, or I could try this myself. I can sort of wrap my head around the glassing but not sure how to add mass to the front action screw area so it doesn't dip into the stock. Was thinking shims, washers, something like that. But this could be a terrible idea.

Thanks!

 

[IAm_Not_Lost]

Hi, thanks for this post. Got the superlite in 308 and having some issues with the stock. When I place the barreled action in the stock there's probably a quarter inch teeter that causes the barreled action to slip maybe too far into the stock when fully torqued to 30 in lbs. This causes the barrel to have some pretty significant contact with the forend of the stock. Would you have any suggestions for this situation? Howa said I could send back to them but it will take at Lear 3 months, could send it to Oregunsmithing, that's a month but sounds like they have a lot of experience with superlites, or I could try this myself. I can sort of wrap my head around the glassing but not sure how to add mass to the front action screw area so it doesn't dip into the stock. Was thinking shims, washers, something like that. But this could be a terrible idea.

Thanks!

Yeah, so if you read towards the bottom of my initial post, where I show new bedding material and talk about how the barrel likes to tilt forward, I think you can get an idea of what’s going on.

The Stocky’s stock is lightweight, but it definitely needs fitting and bedding.

So my advise would be to take the action out, and just do a really simple bedding around the first inch of the barrel.

Don’t use the action screws to hold the barreled action in place after you lay the bedding, just press it in firmly and then use tape or tough self adhering straps or something.

Just watch some YouTube bedding videos and that will give you a good idea of how to do it. But in this case what’s happening with these stocks is that the front action screw pulls down the front of the barrel because the recoil lug isn’t supported underneath it, and the action screw threads into the recoil lug.

Hope that helps!

 

[Bidwell]

Yeah, so if you read towards the bottom of my initial post, where I show new bedding material and talk about how the barrel likes to tilt forward, I think you can get an idea of what’s going on.

The Stocky’s stock is lightweight, but it definitely needs fitting and bedding.

So my advise would be to take the action out, and just do a really simple bedding around the first inch of the barrel.

Don’t use the action screws to hold the barreled action in place after you lay the bedding, just press it in firmly and then use tape or tough self adhering straps or something.

Just watch some YouTube bedding videos and that will give you a good idea of how to do it. But in this case what’s happening with these stocks is that the front action screw pulls down the front of the barrel because the recoil lug isn’t supported underneath it, and the action screw threads into the recoil lug.

Hope that helps!

Interesting, thanks for the tips! As a test, I ended up shimming the lug and the flat base behind the lug with .025 aluminum pieces. Did this based on advice i hot from a few different folks. That floated the barrel and shooting ok so far but I haven't really stretched it out yet. Bedding sounds like way to go.

 

[Trapper330]

Sooo...I took the leap and bought a superlite. I dislike magazines, so I was elated to see the after market aluminum floor plate, so I bought that. Just went to shoot it and you can't load it from the top!? WTF!!!??? I see you mentioned jiggling a round in from top, or easier "throwing " loads in from the bottom!? Sorry, but that's BULLSHIT!! (Not you, the process, or lack thereof!!) Good Lord...idk. if I grind off one side will it load from the top?? I have a call in to Oregon gun smithing, but idk...Help!!

 

[Bidwell]

Sooo...I took the leap and bought a superlite. I dislike magazines, so I was elated to see the after market aluminum floor plate, so I bought that. Just went to shoot it and you can't load it from the top!? WTF!!!??? I see you mentioned jiggling a round in from top, or easier "throwing " loads in from the bottom!? Sorry, but that's BULLSHIT!! (Not you, the process, or lack thereof!!) Good Lord...idk. if I grind off one side will it load from the top?? I have a call in to Oregon gun smithing, but idk...Help!!

Legitimately just curious (still fairly new to shooting) what is the advantage of being able to single feed from the top instead of using the mag? For extended coal loads beyond magazine capacity? Also, just taking mine in for bedding. Fingers crossed it works out OK. Had it shimmed before and was shooting really well, but wanted a more reliable solution. Should also note that I got the muzzle brake from Oregunsmithing and its been great. They did send me the wrong caliber at first, which was a little scary since it only had about .003 clearance but it was fine. They fixed pretty quickly.

 

[The Guide]

It seems to me that Howa actions shoot the best when pillar bedded. Thus needs to be done so the rear of the recoil lug fully seats in the stock or gets bedded so it gets even pressure down and rear ward during the recoil impulse. This allows the action and barrel to be free floated and stress free everywhere except the connection points at the tang and recoil lug. The Howa 1500 actions in their various versions and brands could all benefit from being stress relieved in this fashion. The biggest issue I've seen from Howa 1500 rifles of any type is contact stress whether from the barrel touching, the action getting pulled uneven, or most likely, a combination of the two.

Jay

 

[Trapper330]

Legitimately just curious (still fairly new to shooting) what is the advantage of being able to single feed from the top instead of using the mag? For extended coal loads beyond magazine capacity? Also, just taking mine in for bedding. Fingers crossed it works out OK. Had it shimmed before and was shooting really well, but wanted a more reliable solution. Should also note that I got the muzzle brake from Oregunsmithing and its been great. They did send me the wrong caliber at first, which was a little scary since it only had about .003 clearance but it was fine. They fixed pretty quickly.

Just what I like i guess. Less to go wrong, meaning magazine can't accidentally fall out while hunting, not sure it ever would, but?? I like the aluminum vs. the plastic trigger guard and bottom metal, but seriously thinking of going back to just the mag. Spoke with Oregon as I can't wiggle a round in from the top, and takes too long if I need it in a hurry. He mentioned the dumping loads in from the bottom, which I'll see. I asked about grinding off a bit on magazine part that holds rounds. he said 1/4-3/8" at most so I may see if that is a fix?? Howa makes drop floorplates for other models, so maybe in the future??

 

[Bidwell]

Just what I like i guess. Less to go wrong, meaning magazine can't accidentally fall out while hunting, not sure it ever would, but?? I like the aluminum vs. the plastic trigger guard and bottom metal, but seriously thinking of going back to just the mag. Spoke with Oregon as I can't wiggle a round in from the top, and takes too long if I need it in a hurry. He mentioned the dumping loads in from the bottom, which I'll see. I asked about grinding off a bit on magazine part that holds rounds. he said 1/4-3/8" at most so I may see if that is a fix?? Howa makes drop floorplates for other models, so maybe in the future??

I see, that makes sense. If you lost the mag there's easy access.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Thanks for the thread on the bedding issues.

I have one of the earlier 308 SLs (20 in barrel, Kryptek). Shot 1.25 MOA (10 round groups, cooling between shots) with 150 Accubonds and 46 grains of Varget - sweet! Dragged it elk hunting for a couple of years, but always hated the rail setup, so I got some Talley's and while I was at it, pulled the action from the stock to make sure nothing was rusting under there (been wet more than once hunting). No rust was seen, I love the Talley's, yay. After dispatching a couple of roadkills, I was down to my last 10 rounds from my first batch of reloads for it, so off to the range to run those out and do up a fresh batch of 50 - and lo and behold, 3.5 to 4 MOA, what the ... Been messing with things every since, and it ain't the Talley's (put the rail back on, same results), ain't the reloads, tried a few other things that should be golden (125 Accubonds over AR Comp), and nothing... huh ...

Anyway, pulled it out of the stock again, and when reassembling, I noticed it teters pretty significantly on what I think is side pressure in the middle of the action from the stock. Looking for into on SL bedding issues, found this thread, and here we are.

I think I will relieve the sides so the action doesn't get pressure in the middle, and bed the lug area about how you did yours. Here's hoping that helps.

That's my story, comments, suggestions, etc welcome.

 

[MallardSX2]

Thanks for the thread on the bedding issues.

I have one of the earlier 308 SLs (20 in barrel, Kryptek). Shot 1.25 MOA (10 round groups, cooling between shots) with 150 Accubonds and 46 grains of Varget - sweet! Dragged it elk hunting for a couple of years, but always hated the rail setup, so I got some Talley's and while I was at it, pulled the action from the stock to make sure nothing was rusting under there (been wet more than once hunting). No rust was seen, I love the Talley's, yay. After dispatching a couple of roadkills, I was down to my last 10 rounds from my first batch of reloads for it, so off to the range to run those out and do up a fresh batch of 50 - and lo and behold, 3.5 to 4 MOA, what the ... Been messing with things every since, and it ain't the Talley's (put the rail back on, same results), ain't the reloads, tried a few other things that should be golden (125 Accubonds over AR Comp), and nothing... huh ...

Anyway, pulled it out of the stock again, and when reassembling, I noticed it teters pretty significantly on what I think is side pressure in the middle of the action from the stock. Looking for into on SL bedding issues, found this thread, and here we are.

I think I will relieve the sides so the action doesn't get pressure in the middle, and bed the lug area about how you did yours. Here's hoping that helps.

That's my story, comments, suggestions, etc welcome.

I’m not sure if you’re shooting a Leupold scope or not but my first thing would be to change that scope and make sure it’s not the scope. I just went down this road on two different rifles and it was the scope in both instances believe it or not

Food for thought.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

I’m not sure if you’re shooting a Leupold scope or not but my first thing would be to change that scope and make sure it’s not the scope. I just went down this road on two different rifles and it was the scope in both instances believe it or not

Food for thought.

Nope, no Leupold scopes for me. I don't really like their low end stuff, and their high end stuff is both too expensive and too big/heavy for my taste. I would also say most of my friends who are big Leupold fans have had personal experience with their warranty service, which while the service is great, also means they had a scope that died on them at some point.

Anyway - to the point, you do make a good point, and I do have a few spare scopes lying around, and it would be pretty trivial to give that a try. I will have a go at that and see what I get.

 

[Weldor]

Have the 20" 308, just finished bedding and fitting. I did use the action screws when bedding it but just barely snug. Shot it with some hand loads 150 sst's and Winchester power point 150's. It doesn't like the SST's at all 3 moa and no grouping. The Winchester's averages about 1 moa. 3 shot groups with a barrel cooler between shots 60 plus degrees outside temp.. It did put aluminum bottom metal on it from DIP. Bedded front and rear . I noticed from the factory about 2-1/2 threads maybe on rear action screw. Milled it out so action seated flat with room to bed it. Now action is straight and rear screw has a full bite. Just finished loading up some 165's to test. I'm sure the accuracy can be improved with the right combo. The factory urethane sucks, peals all the time. I will probably strip it and just paint it. By strip I mean peel, LOL.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Nope, no Leupold scopes for me. I don't really like their low end stuff, and their high end stuff is both too expensive and too big/heavy for my taste. I would also say most of my friends who are big Leupold fans have had personal experience with their warranty service, which while the service is great, also means they had a scope that died on them at some point.

Anyway - to the point, you do make a good point, and I do have a few spare scopes lying around, and it would be pretty trivial to give that a try. I will have a go at that and see what I get.

Well, it ain't the scope - swapped in the one I recently took off a different gun, and same results from the Howa today at the range (I'd say worse even but once you're north of 3MOA it gets hard to tell). So.... off to wal-mart for some epoxy putty with me.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Well, it ain't the scope - swapped in the one I recently took off a different gun, and same results from the Howa today at the range (I'd say worse even but once you're north of 3MOA it gets hard to tell). So.... off to wal-mart for some epoxy putty with me.

TL;DR - OP is dead on the money, bedding on these things is awful from the factory, absolutely awful.

Note: I have edited this to correct the talk-2-text weirdness from the original post and add some more color for anyone who looks this up in the future:

So, I think I figured out the fundamental problem with mine. That accubock thing or whatever they call it is misaligned between the front and rear shelf areas. The front shelf, that flat part right behind the lug, is not in line with where the Tang bolts up; so either the tang sits flat in the stock, or the front shelf sits flat in the stock - but both cannot sit flat at the same time without putting the action under significant strain/twist.

I bedded the barrel section just in front of the lug/under the chamber with JB WaterWeld (does not make for a pretty bedding job, but it gets er dun, and is stupid-easy to work with; even I can do it), using Hornady OneShot spray on case-lube for release agent. For the bedding I set the action lightly into the stock (barrel sitting proud on the putty blob), and tightened the rear action screw first, and then brought the front action screw down to press the barrel into the putty epoxy, looking up from the bottom side to confirm when the flat section behind the lug came up tight to the stock/shelf. I did it that way (tightening the tang first) so I should not have gotten any forward teeter effect. checked to confirm I had plenty of barrel channel clearance, and all looked good (barrel does want to sit a touch to the left side of the channel, but that's just cosmetic - there's plenty of clearance/sheet of paper slides freely).

Pull it out of the stock after 2 days (way longer than needed for the epoxy - it's dry enough to handle in about an hour or two - it was just 2 days before I got back around to it), and go to tighten the action back up. Just make sure everything sits good and clean, I tighten the front action screw first and torqued it to 33 in-lbs. If I did it right, the action will be fully supported between the shelf behind the recoil lug and the new bedding I put in just under the chamber, and even with the front screw under torque, the barrel will still free-float without the rear action screw in place. Barrel free floats as expected. Perfect!

I go to tighten the tang/rear action screw, and I can visibly see the tang moving downward close to 1/8th of an inch before it makes contact with the stock/gets tight... But the barrel doesn't move because I've locked the front of the action into the bedding and torqued it... Well, now... that can't be good, LOL. So, basically, once the rear shelf (area behind the recoil lug) is pulled in flat to the accublock up front, the tang sits near 1/8th of an inch high of the stock in the back. Easy fix - I'll bed the tang and this thing will be setup pretty much perfect.

Other notes - I also pulled the scope rail back off and looked at it, and since I remounted it, there is definite signs that it's been moving against the top of the action, so between that and the action under strain as described above, it's a wonder it shot as good as it did.

My working theory of my whole adventure is, when it left the factory from Howa, the rail was torqued up really good and tight to the action (it was, when I removed it, it took some good force to break the screws loose), and the action was not torqued very tight at all (it was not - I remember the 1st time I pulled it out of the stock, I'd ballpark the action screws at maybe 5 in-lbs of force to break them loose). Anyway, between very light action screw torque, and the structural geometry created by the rail that was on good and tight, all that prevented the action for being twisted because of the misaligned accublock thing I described above. I swapped over to the Talley rings at the same time I pulled it out of the stock for the first time, and it's shot like crap ever since.

Since I prefer the Talley rings anyway, I put them back on there. Just for grins I mounted the scope with the rear action screw completely out and I only tightened the cap rings on the scope lightly. Then when I torqued the rear action/tang screw, sure enough you can see the scope ring move in relation to the scope. That's a lot of pressure (in a bad way) that was being put on the action.

I bedded the tang over the weekend (took 2 layers of waterweld - I underestimated how deep it needed to be the first try). I'll let you guys know later this week if it suddenly shoots good again.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

TL;DR - OP is dead on the money, bedding on these things is awful from the factory, absolutely awful.

Note: I have edited this to correct the talk-2-text weirdness from the original post and add some more color for anyone who looks this up in the future:

So, I think I figured out the fundamental problem with mine. That accubock thing or whatever they call it is misaligned between the front and rear shelf areas. The front shelf, that flat part right behind the lug, is not in line with where the Tang bolts up; so either the tang sits flat in the stock, or the front shelf sits flat in the stock - but both cannot sit flat at the same time without putting the action under significant strain/twist.

I bedded the barrel section just in front of the lug/under the chamber with JB WaterWeld (does not make for a pretty bedding job, but it gets er dun, and is stupid-easy to work with; even I can do it), using Hornady OneShot spray on case-lube for release agent. For the bedding I set the action lightly into the stock (barrel sitting proud on the putty blob), and tightened the rear action screw first, and then brought the front action screw down to press the barrel into the putty epoxy, looking up from the bottom side to confirm when the flat section behind the lug came up tight to the stock/shelf. I did it that way (tightening the tang first) so I should not have gotten any forward teeter effect. checked to confirm I had plenty of barrel channel clearance, and all looked good (barrel does want to sit a touch to the left side of the channel, but that's just cosmetic - there's plenty of clearance/sheet of paper slides freely).

Pull it out of the stock after 2 days (way longer than needed for the epoxy - it's dry enough to handle in about an hour or two - it was just 2 days before I got back around to it), and go to tighten the action back up. Just make sure everything sits good and clean, I tighten the front action screw first and torqued it to 33 in-lbs. If I did it right, the action will be fully supported between the shelf behind the recoil lug and the new bedding I put in just under the chamber, and even with the front screw under torque, the barrel will still free-float without the rear action screw in place. Barrel free floats as expected. Perfect!

I go to tighten the tang/rear action screw, and I can visibly see the tang moving downward close to 1/8th of an inch before it makes contact with the stock/gets tight... But the barrel doesn't move because I've locked the front of the action into the bedding and torqued it... Well, now... that can't be good, LOL. So, basically, once the rear shelf (area behind the recoil lug) is pulled in flat to the accublock up front, the tang sits near 1/8th of an inch high of the stock in the back. Easy fix - I'll bed the tang and this thing will be setup pretty much perfect.

Other notes - I also pulled the scope rail back off and looked at it, and since I remounted it, there is definite signs that it's been moving against the top of the action, so between that and the action under strain as described above, it's a wonder it shot as good as it did.

My working theory of my whole adventure is, when it left the factory from Howa, the rail was torqued up really good and tight to the action (it was, when I removed it, it took some good force to break the screws loose), and the action was not torqued very tight at all (it was not - I remember the 1st time I pulled it out of the stock, I'd ballpark the action screws at maybe 5 in-lbs of force to break them loose). Anyway, between very light action screw torque, and the structural geometry created by the rail that was on good and tight, all that prevented the action for being twisted because of the misaligned accublock thing I described above. I swapped over to the Talley rings at the same time I pulled it out of the stock for the first time, and it's shot like crap ever since.

Since I prefer the Talley rings anyway, I put them back on there. Just for grins I mounted the scope with the rear action screw completely out and I only tightened the cap rings on the scope lightly. Then when I torqued the rear action/tang screw, sure enough you can see the scope ring move in relation to the scope. That's a lot of pressure (in a bad way) that was being put on the action.

I bedded the tang over the weekend (took 2 layers of waterweld - I underestimated how deep it needed to be the first try). I'll let you guys know later this week if it suddenly shoots good again.

So, I think we have success (at least mostly) Took me 2 trips to the range - trip 1 earlier this week, it had improved (2.5 MOA instead of 3.5+), but i wasn't totally happy. Took it out of the stock when I got home, and saw where the tang was rubbing the stock that I had missed, and also realized there was a low spot in the bedding at the tang, so there was still some action torque happening. So I relieved the stock with the dremel where it was rubbing, added yet another layer of bedding to the tang, and since I had a fair chunk of epoxy putty left over, bedded under the recoil lug.

Back to the range today, used some factory Norma to check zero (it was WAAAAY off), and then switched to 125 Acubond's over H4895. Was in a hurry, and light barrels need a lot of cooling, so I only managed to get 5 rounds downrange for accuracy testing - but they came in at 1.5 MOA, which seems like we have a winner. It would barely put 2 shots in a row within 2 inches of each other before I bedded it, so definitely a major improvement, even if a larger sample size bears out it's not 100% 1.5 MOA all day.

Anyhoo ^ there be the info, for anyone interested.

Postscript edit to add - I took it back out again with 15 more rounds of the same load, and that group plus overlaying the 5 rounds from last time, and it turned in 1.7 MOA. First 3 shots both times were under an inch (and under the same inch). So, 20 rounds at 1.7MOA (with me behind the trigger), that is both problem solved, and good to go for a crazy-light hunting rifle (at least to me).

 

[IAm_Not_Lost]

Sooo...I took the leap and bought a superlite. I dislike magazines, so I was elated to see the after market aluminum floor plate, so I bought that. Just went to shoot it and you can't load it from the top!? WTF!!!??? I see you mentioned jiggling a round in from top, or easier "throwing " loads in from the bottom!? Sorry, but that's BULLSHIT!! (Not you, the process, or lack thereof!!) Good Lord...idk. if I grind off one side will it load from the top?? I have a call in to Oregon gun smithing, but idk...Help!!

Sorry I didn’t see this sooner. So, you can load a round from the top if you want to just single feed. But to load from the bottom you just turn the rifle over and put the rounds in, close the floor plate and carry on.

Pretty standard setup when you are retro fitting an internal mag into a gun not designed for that.