How will 75% Tag Allocation Affect Preference Points in CO?

[Dave_]

I have no real skin in this game as a NR, butI enjoy the opportunity CO provides as my backup elk hunt plan every year, but agreed it is not very sustainable. I would also agree it needs to take care or residents first. Although it seems silly to get rid of otc archery and keep otc rifle...but I digress.

There are obviously alot if different view points and stakeholders. Doesn't mean anyone is out right wrong just different options on how to manage. States will probably always find new ways to make the money. Wildlife and resident opportunity should come first

I'm surprised NR public hunters haven't formed a national organization or coalition to "work together" to lobby for NR hunting opportunity but take residents wants into account. (Because in the end the wildlife is legally managed for the residents of the states). Use our NR spending power and economic benefits to lobby to oppose the outfitter welfare, get states to work together on management strategies and application timing, public access, help residents fight off anti hunting regulations, etc. It would need to be a BHA, RMEF, sportsman's alliance hybrid.

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[Shō[t]gun]

You mean like when parks joined wildlife in 2011 and was something like 27 million in the hole, but was instantly solvent again because of the division of wildlife?

How does that have anything to do with the allocation of the Keep Colorado Wild funds?

 

[sndmn11]

Did you not see the attachments directly from CPW’s website? That’s where I’m getting my info, but if you know more then please share.

Wildlife funds have always stayed within the Wildlife budget; your first screenshot isn't new but has been ignored by many during the "what about the money lost?" argument that is always brought up. People have wanted to believe that Parks takes money from Wildlife, see the post above yours.

The license plate pass thing should alleviate any "what about the lost money?" Hail Mary arguments for those who still want to throw it out there. As I said before and many other times, CPW has a problem spending what is required to be spent. The Wildlife side is cash flush and the LE/DWM folks I know are more frustrated with having to put time and effort into finding ways to spend it than looking for funding to the point it is the primary duty of some at each office.

Bringing up money from NR license sales is irrelevant. It would be like if Colorado residents started complaining that there wasn't enough private land in Texas for us to hunt.

 

[Dave_]

Wildlife funds have always stayed within the Wildlife budget; your first screenshot isn't new but has been ignored by many during the "what about the money lost?" argument that is always brought up. People have wanted to believe that Parks takes money from Wildlife, see the post above yours.

The license plate pass thing should alleviate any "what about the lost money?" Hail Mary arguments for those who still want to throw it out there. As I said before and many other times, CPW has a problem spending what is required to be spent. The Wildlife side is cash flush and the LE/DWM folks I know are more frustrated with having to put time and effort into finding ways to spend it than looking for funding to the point it is the primary duty of some at each office.

Bringing up money from NR license sales is irrelevant. It would be like if Colorado residents started complaining that there wasn't enough private land in Texas for us to hunt.

Technically speaking there isn't enough private land in TX "that we can hunt". Haha. Im sure you are totally right in the rest of your statement...

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[Shō[t]gun]

Wildlife funds have always stayed within the Wildlife budget; your first screenshot isn't new but has been ignored by many during the "what about the money lost?" argument that is always brought up. People have wanted to believe that Parks takes money from Wildlife, see the post above yours.

The license plate pass thing should alleviate any "what about the lost money?" Hail Mary arguments for those who still want to throw it out there. As I said before and many other times, CPW has a problem spending what is required to be spent. The Wildlife side is cash flush and the LE/DWM folks I know are more frustrated with having to put time and effort into finding ways to spend it than looking for funding to the point it is the primary duty of some at each office.

Bringing up money from NR license sales is irrelevant. It would be like if Colorado residents started complaining that there wasn't enough private land in Texas for us to hunt.

Fair enough, thanks for the level headed response.
If that’s the case, then why do tag prices keep going up?
It blows me away that a gov agency has a hard time spending cash, especially when they’ve stated that there’s likely “as many poached animals annually as legally harvested”.. sounds like they need more wardens and have the funds to do so.

 

[CoMulies]

for total dollars, more like residents would need to pay 5x the current price for an elk tag at 90/10 and no NR OTC... And then still a considerable shortfall from historical and budgetary numbers for elk license sales.
One thing politicians know, is how to think like a business, busn-person, and not always in the realm of the greater good for the common public. More hunters should...that's my point.

THE FUTURE:
Once you are done punishing the NR hunters, splitting the ranks of hunter support & solidarity, with an extreme ratio such as the quote above, the CO resident hunters can complain about higher tag prices for less elk, once the wolves become established. And lose to the greater population, budgets and legalese of anti-hunt groups and non-hunters, granola types. You can bet they will legislate higher resident hunt fees!

After all, Fed $$ and more CPW $$$$ will fund the wolf establishment, support groups and deplete the CPW budget that would be needed for the hunter side of game management. And soon, add the GRIZZ to the equation.

Perfect, make it 5x. You think I wouldn’t pay $330 for an elk tag with a big shit eating grin on my face if I knew I was going to have a quality experience and not see more hunters than game? Hell, I’d pay $500 for that and thank CPW for it.

 

[Dave_]

Fair enough, thanks for the level headed response.
If that’s the case, then why do tag prices keep going up?
It blows me away that a gov agency has a hard time spending cash, especially when they’ve stated that there’s likely “as many poached animals annually as legally harvested”.. sounds like they need more wardens and have the funds to do so.

I don't know CO specifically, in TX the state leg has left millions of hunters $ (fund 9) unnappropriated in order to help "balance" the rest of the states budget. They liked just having a big pool of money sitting there not being used, just looks good on paper

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[sndmn11]

Fair enough, thanks for the level headed response.
If that’s the case, then why do tag prices keep going up?
It blows me away that a gov agency has a hard time spending cash, especially when they’ve stated that there’s likely “as many poached animals annually as legally harvested”.. sounds like they need more wardens and have the funds to do so.

The requirements are too stringent, or at least used to be 10 years ago when I was in LE. One had to have education in wildlife biology, or forestry, or an outdoorsy degree. By the time someone was in their 20s and interested or already POST certified, they don't want to go back to school to get those degrees. This is why you see a lot of District Wildlife Managers becoming POST certified and doing a significant amount of LE work.

A lot of spur of the moment wildlife violations are handled by local assets of you have a SO with personnel who get off the pavement, and CSP is usually dispatched in tandem if something comes up. CPW LE are amazing investigators and probably at the forefront of new technology/techniques because they are usually responding cold to anything worth investigating.

I don't have a clue about the rising cost of licenses, but it seems those laying them haven't balked yet. I have a different perspective than some in that I'd probably be out as a CO R paying over $100 per license.

 

[Hnthrdr]

The requirements are too stringent, or at least used to be 10 years ago when I was in LE. One had to have education in wildlife biology, or forestry, or an outdoorsy degree. By the time someone was in their 20s and interested or already POST certified, they don't want to go back to school to get those degrees. This is why you see a lot of District Wildlife Managers becoming POST certified and doing a significant amount of LE work.

A lot of spur of the moment wildlife violations are handled by local assets of you have a SO with personnel who get off the pavement, and CSP is usually dispatched in tandem if something comes up. CPW LE are amazing investigators and probably at the forefront of new technology/techniques because they are usually responding cold to anything worth investigating.

I don't have a clue about the rising cost of licenses, but it seems those laying them haven't balked yet. I have a different perspective than some in that I'd probably be out as a CO R paying over $100 per license.

Completely agree with the crazy requirements for wildlife officers… especially for how little they are compensated relatively to other LEO in the state

 

[Shō[t]gun]

The requirements are too stringent, or at least used to be 10 years ago when I was in LE. One had to have education in wildlife biology, or forestry, or an outdoorsy degree. By the time someone was in their 20s and interested or already POST certified, they don't want to go back to school to get those degrees. This is why you see a lot of District Wildlife Managers becoming POST certified and doing a significant amount of LE work.

A lot of spur of the moment wildlife violations are handled by local assets of you have a SO with personnel who get off the pavement, and CSP is usually dispatched in tandem if something comes up. CPW LE are amazing investigators and probably at the forefront of new technology/techniques because they are usually responding cold to anything worth investigating.

I don't have a clue about the rising cost of licenses, but it seems those laying them haven't balked yet. I have a different perspective than some in that I'd probably be out as a CO R paying over $100 per license.

Seems to be the main problem with a lot of LE’s nowadays.

As far as the people not balking about fees, I doubt they’d ever see a coordinated revolt by NR’s to boycott Colorado anytime soon over fees since the ones already hunting can afford it. It’s the generation of 20-something’s that will never get into hunting because of the sticker shock, or never do it again after dad stops paying their tags that concerns me. It may take another 10-15 years, but when the boomers stay home and the young guys don’t hunt, it’ll have to correct itself or we’ll all get voted out of the woods.

 

[sndmn11]

Seems to be the main problem with a lot of LE’s nowadays.

As far as the people not balking about fees, I doubt they’d ever see a coordinated revolt by NR’s to boycott Colorado anytime soon over fees since the ones already hunting can afford it. It’s the generation of 20-something’s that will never get into hunting because of the sticker shock, or never do it again after dad stops paying their tags that concerns me. It may take another 10-15 years, but when the boomers stay home and the young guys don’t hunt, it’ll have to correct itself or we’ll all get voted out of the woods.

I also think that there's a view (in the context of CO) that it is the same R/NR hunting every year. I tend to think that isn't the case because I think CO is used as a backup (see some other post above?) for many people. If one strikes out everywhere else, THEN 25-50% of the NR are coming to CO to hunt. Maybe from that stand point, the perspective is, "I can still hunt CO AND it is cheaper than {insert state}". There's a fair amount of CO elk hunters who reside in other elk states.

I disagree about the spending habits of those on the cusp of Millenial/GenZ. I think they have zero issues spending money on what they want and debt isn't looked at with the same caution as older generations. When one-day lift tickets are a few hundred dollars, mountain bike parks are close to $100 a day, climbing gyms are $30 a day, etc., and they are all full, my perspective is that we (I'm 39) spend on what is important to us.

 

[UncleBone]

I also think that there's a view (in the context of CO) that it is the same R/NR hunting every year. I tend to think that isn't the case because I think CO is used as a backup (see some other post above?) for many people. If one strikes out everywhere else, THEN 25-50% of the NR are coming to CO to hunt. Maybe from that stand point, the perspective is, "I can still hunt CO AND it is cheaper than {insert state}". There's a fair amount of CO elk hunters who reside in other elk states.

I disagree about the spending habits of those on the cusp of Millenial/GenZ. I think they have zero issues spending money on what they want and debt isn't looked at with the same caution as older generations. When one-day lift tickets are a few hundred dollars, mountain bike parks are close to $100 a day, climbing gyms are $30 a day, etc., and they are all full, my perspective is that we (I'm 39) spend on what is important to us.

Yeah, $900 bucks for a ski pass, Thousands in gear, hundreds for gas and beer etc. Young people have no problem spending money.

 

[Archer86]

It's funny seeing everyone say how are the going to make up the money if they eliminate nr otc.

The thing most are missing is its not like its going to go away all together. They will have some sort of cap that limits the nr in those areas how they do it who knows. It's should not effect your ability to hunt if you plan accordingly. resident fees really wouldn't need to go up much if any at all. Nr can easily cover most of the cost of the changes.

It's hard to understand why nr are so against this they pay a premium to hunt elk out of state you would think they want a better experiance vs colorado being everyone back up when they don't get one of the other better states.

 

[Bearsears]

Maybe Ive been watching too much Civil War stuff lately but I think a lot of the concepts we argue about here are precisely because we call and consider ourselves Residents and Non Residents. I'm not a resident of Colorado, I'm a citizen of Colorado. Its my State. If you don't live here you are not a Citizen, You cant vote here, you don't pay taxes here. Under the North American model of wildlife management, the wildlife belongs to the Citizens of the state. I hate to be blunt but if you are a Non Citizen you have absolutely zero right to hunt another state. Anything you get to hunt is pure privilege.

I haven't complained once about all the changes that have happened in other western states that has limited my opportunities. I cant believe how much complaining and heat Colorado citizens get for wanting our state to be more in line with allocations of other western states. I love this community but you guys have zero right to Colorado and the money argument doesn't hold water. Other states figure it out and so can we.

Unfortunately for the Colorado citizen, the Commission is chalk full of radical anti hunters, Outfitters, etc. They are adamantly opposed to what we want and they would much rather keep status quo. Proof of this is what a heavy lift just getting the 75/25% split was. Even that is fictitious as it is only instituted in 1st choice draw. Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or the Secondary draw. As a non citizen you have a commission on your side for the moment until the lack of predator management depletes game species so much that hunting is lost in Colorado.

I also sometimes struggle with loud voices from non citizens about tag allocations, while at the same time doing very little to help us in the fight against losing mtn lion and bobcat hunting etc. This drives me nuts about a lot of the hunting industry, conservation groups, influencers etc. That's a discussion for another day though.

Just my two cents which isn't worth much these days.

 

[Archer86]

maybe if colorado limits the nr enough there will be enough nr that will move there and vote to turn the anti hunting stuff around.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

No sense in having units that are 75/25 and others 80/20. It should have went 80/20 for all units

 

[Hnthrdr]

No sense in having units that are 75/25 and others 80/20. It should have went 80/20 for all units

On board… and it should be for 1-3 choices…

 

[IrkedCitizen]

Also all the people talking about revenue you are forgetting key points. Qualifying license, habitat stamp, application fees.

Last year there were 113,125 NR adults that applied for a first choice elk. In order to apply they had to buy the $11.50 habitat stamp, qualifying license, and then the $10 application fee. The least expensive qualifying license is the annual small game $93.78.

11.50 + 93.78 + 10 = $115.28

$115.28 × 113,125 = $13,041,050 before even issuing a single elk tag.

This is FREE money to the CPW! By all means come out to Colorado and hunt small game.

For 2024 the prices increased.
HS $12.15
QL SG $98.92
APP $10
Total $121.07
I doubt we see a decrease in applicants

 

[35WhelenAI]

Yeah, good point on the qualifying license, habitat stamp, application fee that are sunk costs whether you draw or not.

 

[KsRancher]

Will be interesting to see how the draw goes this year. My brother was all but guaranteed an elk tag and both my boys a mule deer tag with their points. I would guess they will have around a 66% of drawing this year.