How to end NR Wyoming wilderness ban?

[TaperPin]

Isn’t that a little bit of the pot/kettle thing? If Wyoming residents want to keep the public off the land they pay for, maybe Wyoming should pay for those lands themselves?

Nobody is keeping anyone off federal land. Go there all you want.

Those without simply want what they don’t have, and don’t want to pay for it. I get hit up by a local bum all the time. No. Guy wants to camp out on our family land. No. Guy wants to farm our hay fields for free. No. Covid slackers decimated many high country lakes - we were too easy on them and see where that got us.

The best thing Wyoming can do is curtail nonresidents as much as possible - go to Colorado and the hunting and scenery is much better there.

 

[StupidLightweight]

The best thing Wyoming can do is curtail nonresidents as much as possible - go to Colorado and the hunting and scenery is much better there.

Your desire to curtail NR hunting opportunities is understandable. I get your logic. That would mean more opportunities for residents. And if F&G slashed NR tag quotas, people would be upset but they'd understand.

What people can't understand is the logic behind preventing a licensed hunter from crossing an arbitrary line in the woods just because of where they live. It makes no sense. Never has. Never will.

Last thing: The comparison of nonresident hunters who pay almost $2,000 for an elk tag to local bums or COVID slackers is a good one. You had me chuckling, sir.

 

[TaperPin]

The argument in reality is something for something.

As it stands now WY residents can hunt other wilderness areas for 'nothing' but NR in WY must pay to hunt them? That sounds more like something for nothing than anything I have said.

I’m not nearly as outspoken on this as many in the state. We make up new cus words over it.

Eventually our state will be run by billionaires, our high country will look like Colorado with tree huggers everywhere, the great hunting we have will go to hell as tags are sold in volume at the highest price just like concert tickets, and nobody outside the state will give two schits. This reminds me, I need to write some letters to our state government, and make some calls complaining about lax game law enforcement in wilderness areas.

 

[bergie]

@TaperPin
You have got to be trolling me at this point, or you are just impossible to have a conversation with. You keep quoting posts that you can keep up your narrative with but ignore mine. If you truly did miss them, go back and read my responses to you and tell me how you can relate that to the local bum.

 

[wapitibob]

I get tge state owns the wildlife, that was not the point. Clearly the state regulates the hunting of wildlife. But the state is regulating hunting wildlife on federal lands, specifically denying nonresident hunting on federal wilderness. The state simple lacks authority to do this. They can legally regulate access to state lands all they want, within the law, considering it is public land, sovthey have some limitations there too.

The "wilderness law" requires a guide for big game hunting, and the state can regulate that any way they choose. They can require a guide to hunt anywhere in the state if they wanted to, not provide tags to nr, and the list goes on.

 

[bergie]

@TaperPin
You have got to be trolling me at this point, or you are just impossible to have a conversation with. You keep quoting posts that you can keep up your narrative with but ignore mine. If you truly did miss them, go back and read my responses to you and tell me how you can relate that to the local bum.

I’m not nearly as outspoken on this as many in the state. We make up new cus words over it.

Eventually our state will be run by billionaires, our high country will look like Colorado with tree huggers everywhere, the great hunting we have will go to hell as tags are sold in volume at the highest price just like concert tickets, and nobody outside the state will give two schits. This reminds me, I need to write some letters to our state government, and make some calls complaining about lax game law enforcement in wilderness areas.

well...nevermind, got my panties in a bunch over nothing...proceed

These are the arguments that resonate with me much more than, 'you don't want to hunt with a guide, therefore you are the same as a bum asking for a handout'

 

[307]

I get tge state owns the wildlife, that was not the point. Clearly the state regulates the hunting of wildlife. But the state is regulating hunting wildlife on federal lands, specifically denying nonresident hunting on federal wilderness. The state simple lacks authority to do this. They can legally regulate access to state lands all they want, within the law, considering it is public land, sovthey have some limitations there too.

Do you think that the state should have the authority to regulate hunting on private land? Or would you consider that to be an overreach as well?

 

[Poser]

This would take some amount of time, probably years, to organize and its definitely the long game, but short of someone will the financial backing willing to take on the legal burden of challenging this and getting it to the federal appeals level (which would also take years), simply starve the outfitters that service the wilderness areas out of business with an awareness campaign and boycott that follows. This may not even get the regulation changed, but it sure is some retribution.

 

[displacedtexan]

Other than the WY wilderness rule, what else would this reciprocity apply too? Can’t just mish mosh game regulations across state lines. The tag price reciprocity that’s brought up often is ridiculous. Don’t need tag quotas broken down any further than simply Res/NR.

So what else? Or just another opportunity to start a Wy wilderness rule beat the dead horse rant.

That was my thought... Doesn't one of the Dakotas allow road hunting? Some states require written permission for private, others allow hunting of unposted/unused land... Private road use...

 

[Mojave]

Listening to a podcast toady and they brought up the idea of states offering reciprocity in reference to hunting laws. The example that caught my attention was the Wyoming ban on non resident hunters to be on federally designated wilderness, alone. What neighboring states like Montana and Idaho could do to combat this is pass a mandate that basically says 'non residents from another state are subjected to the same mandates that exist in their home state'. By doing this, Montana residents could hunt Idaho wilderness and vice versa, but since Wyoming does not allow folks from other states to hunt 'their'(our?) wilderness, they would not be allowed to hunt the wilderness areas in either Montana or Idaho.

To state the obvious; if Wyoming residents wanted to continue to enjoy the same benefit of hunting wilderness in other states, they could go to their own game commission to get the ban overturned in Wyoming. Thus creating a situation where they control their own access to wilderness areas in other states.

Full disclosure, I have never hunted Wyoming, but will some day and I damn sure wouldn't hire a guide to hunt so as it stands now hunting the wilderness there is out of the question.

My opinion is obviously self serving, but for the life of me I can't poke a hole in this, so I am interested in the discussion.

The number of non-residents from Wyoming hunting Idaho and Montana is low. You don't leave elk to find elk. If there are 2000 people doing it, I would be shocked.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

From a legal perspective, the way I see it, the state does not have authority to regulate federal lands. If the state issues a nonresident a tag, the state cannot dictate he/she hunt any federal land area with a guide. But, as I'm sure we are all aware, many states do what they want, despite their legal limitations. If they enforce this, sooner or later someone will fight it, and very likely win.

They aren't regulating federal lands you are free to hike, camp, rock climb whenever you want. The animals belong to the state. There is the rub.

 

[Mojave]

The "wilderness law" requires a guide for big game hunting, and the state can regulate that any way they choose. They can require a guide to hunt anywhere in the state if they wanted to, not provide tags to nr, and the list goes on.

Yes, you are not a stakeholder in Wyoming's wildlife management model. State wildlife programs serve the residents.

Wyomingites are screaming for a bigger share of the tags. Wyoming is the only state giving 20-40%. of their elk, antelope and deer tags away.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Do you think that the state should have the authority to regulate hunting on private land? Or would you consider that to be an overreach as well?

They already regulate hunting on private land...seasons and bag limits still apply to private land in most states.

 

[Flyjunky]

Nobody is keeping anyone off federal land. Go there all you want.

Those without simply want what they don’t have, and don’t want to pay for it. I get hit up by a local bum all the time. No. Guy wants to camp out on our family land. No. Guy wants to farm our hay fields for free. No. Covid slackers decimated many high country lakes - we were too easy on them and see where that got us.

The best thing Wyoming can do is curtail nonresidents as much as possible - go to Colorado and the hunting and scenery is much better there.

It’s a handout to guides, plain and simple. Justify it all you want but that’s what it is.

 

[Flyjunky]

They aren't regulating federal lands you are free to hike, camp, rock climb whenever you want. The animals belong to the state. There is the rub.

So I will ask again, why can I fish in wilderness areas?

I’ll answer it for you….$$$.

 

[Mojave]

It’s a handout to guides, plain and simple. Justify it all you want but that’s what it is.

Ok, so it's 5-10% of Wyoming you can't hunt?

You can't hunt 30% of Nevada because of the military.

You can't hunt 20% of New Mexico because of the military.

 

[bergie]

The number of non-residents from Wyoming hunting Idaho and Montana is low. You don't leave elk to find elk. If there are 2000 people doing it, I would be shocked.

I know you made a guess at the number of hunters that leave the state but I wanted to see what % of resident hunters 2000 would be and was shocked to learn that it would have been around 5%, so even at that, thats not all that much. What I was way more surprised to see is just how good elk hunting in Wyoming is...one out of every two people who actively hunt kill an elk? No wonder you guys don't leave

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Yes, you are not a stakeholder in Wyoming's wildlife management model. State wildlife programs serve the residents.

Correct NRs just fund the WY wildlife programs....that $57 R elk tag and $43 R cow calf tag sure as hell ain't doing it.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

So I will ask again, why can I fish in wilderness areas?

I’ll answer it for you….$$$.

Outfitter welfare...same reason you can't hunt wilderness.

 

[Bubblehide]

The "wilderness law" requires a guide for big game hunting, and the state can regulate that any way they choose. They can require a guide to hunt anywhere in the state if they wanted to, not provide tags to nr, and the list goes on.

As I've said, I completely disagree. Wilderness us federal pubic land. The state has no business regulating activities on non-state lands, plain and simple. However, I do get that residents and guides want to keep it the way it is.