how short of a barrel is too short .308 mountain rifle

[0uTkAsT]

Anyone else running short 16 or 18inch back country rifles? Would love to see some examples of 16 inch guns.

Model 7 in .308 with a Vortex Razor HD LH, bolt ball, extra low DNZ Game Reaper and Magpul RLS. Comes in <6.9lbs empty as configured. Love this gun.

 

[CBreeze]

18.5 makes a nice 308. 20” does too. 40” overall length is money.

 

[OXN939]

Been using shorter barrel rifles (20" or less) since I started hunting.

This season I used the 16" barrel 6.5 CM. 130 ELDms at just under 2800 fps worked well on a couple caribou and a deer this fall and see no reason not to use it in the future.

Sure is handy when strapped to the pack:

Dude. Stop posting pictures of those sick ultralight rigs. I can't be compelled into new firearm purchases this frequently.

Factory light tackle Ruger M77 .308 with 16.5" barrel. Bedded and freefloated it and played with the trigger a little, and she's shooting just as well as many of my longer rifles. Kicks a bit and is pretty loud.

 

[Sled]

Been using shorter barrel rifles (20" or less) since I started hunting.

This season I used the 16" barrel 6.5 CM. 130 ELDms at just under 2800 fps worked well on a couple caribou and a deer this fall and see no reason not to use it in the future.

Sure is handy when strapped to the pack:

Luke, what type of load are you getting 2800fps out of a 16" bbl 6.5cm?

 

[0uTkAsT]

Dude. Stop posting pictures of those sick ultralight rigs. I can't be compelled into new firearm purchases this frequently.

Factory light tackle Ruger M77 .308 with 16.5" barrel. Bedded and freefloated it and played with the trigger a little, and she's shooting just as well as many of my longer rifles. Kicks a bit and is pretty loud.

View attachment 134379

Don't see enough M77s around! I had a .243 Hawkeye Laminate Compact for many years and it was a great rifle. I definitely liked the M77 more than the two Gunsite Scouts I've owned.

 

[TREE ‘EM]

I’ve donkeyd with .308 barrel links from 16” through 28” mostly in .5” increments. For a hunting rifle my preference is 20-21”. Less than 20” I find it takes away balance and shoot ability and increases muzzle blast beyond a tolerable point.

Since you’re doing it yourself with zero cost, I recommend starting at 21 inches and go down in .25 or .5 increments to see how the balance feels. You might want to shoot it a bit at each increment to see how it performs. Anytime you cut a barrel, you alter the harmonics which can sometimes have a drastic negative impact on your accuracy.

In the future if you get a lighter weight stock, you can take a little more barrel off and maintain decent balance for shootability

 

[Dobermann]

Track down Jeff Cooper's various writings on the Scout rifle concept (and the article 'The general purpose rifle') - seek out his actual writings, or the good recent book by Richard Mann (as many written summaries by others get the details wrong).

Anyway, one of his main criteria was 'handiness', with an overall length of 1 metre / 39.4 in or less. He did state some velocity ballparks, but that was clearly with the ammo of the time. The Steyr Scout, in 308, which Cooper advised on, came in with a 19 in barrel, for whatever that's worth.

For those concerned about noise and muzzle blast, titanium suppressors can be had that weigh only about 165 grams ... well worth it.

 

[Sled]

For those concerned about noise and muzzle blast, titanium suppressors can be had that weigh only about 165 grams ... well worth it.

I'd be interested in a sub 6oz can. Who's making them and are they available in the states?

 

[0uTkAsT]

I'd be interested in a sub 6oz can. Who's making them and are they available in the states?

Lightest full size .30 cal cans I'm aware of are the SiCo Harvester, Griffin Sportsman, and Gemtech Tracker which all fall in the 11-11.5oz range and are around 8" long.

The TBAC Ultra 5 is ~9.5oz and 5" long, but isn't hearing safe. At most, it might take the edge off the sound and moderate the concussion. It's also pricey.

All I have to compare them to is my Dead Air Sandman-K which is 12.8oz and 5.4", plus another 1/2" and 4oz when you factor in the muzzle device. I don't use it on my backcountry rifles because of the weight, length and loss of balance. I'd be in for a dedicated hunting can if someone figures out how to make a direct thread .30 cal can around 6 x 1.75 and under 10oz.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I run a bunch of short barrels. From 14"-18". Mine are on XP-100 pistols though. Sure is nice to throw them IN the pack. Here's my 284 I've been using for the last few years. Built a different stock last winter. Just over 5# with the new stock and the javelin bipod.

Aaron

 

[silverbullet555]

Track down Jeff Cooper's various writings on the Scout rifle concept (and the article 'The general purpose rifle') - seek out his actual writings, or the good recent book by Richard Mann (as many written summaries by others get the details wrong).

Anyway, one of his main criteria was 'handiness', with an overall length of 1 metre / 39.4 in or less. He did state some velocity ballparks, but that was clearly with the ammo of the time. The Steyr Scout, in 308, which Cooper advised on, came in with a 19 in barrel, for whatever that's worth.

For those concerned about noise and muzzle blast, titanium suppressors can be had that weigh only about 165 grams ... well worth it.

Please do tell us about titanium hearing safe cans in the 6 oz range. I'd be all over that. I like my harvester but saving a few ounces would be awesome.

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[Dobermann]

Oceania Defence Titanium Alpline Hunter ... about the best there is ... not available in the US (yet) ... https://www.oceania-defence.com/suppressors/762-alpine-hunter.html

 

[silverbullet555]

Oceania Defence Titanium Alpline Hunter ... about the best there is ... not available in the US (yet) ... https://www.oceania-defence.com/suppressors/762-alpine-hunter.html

You say yet... are you aware that they are trying to get it here or get a mfg here to make it?

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[Dobermann]

I don't have any inside intel, but the website says:

Currently not available for sale in the USA.

However, they *are* available in Canada, Europe, and South Africa: https://www.oceania-defence.com/international-sales

But to bring this a little back on-topic, here's part of a review about the Alpine Hunter:

The lightest, smallest overall length & diameter centrefire suppressor I have found.
I'm using it on a bolt action .308 with 16.5" barrel.

Yep, you pay for the privilege and I asked 101 questions of myself and others before I parted with that much cash.
There are some other good options out there in the NZ market but I have found the noise, recoil and muzzle flash suppression is better than anything else among the other lightweight hunting options.
I was (really) concerned about adding 150mm of forward muzzle length back on my short rifle after going to so much effort to have it compact and short... but my concerns are unfounded. Balance is superb and extra length not noticed in the bush hunting and scores of km carried to date. (note: the best of the rest was still going to add nearly 100mm forward plus the over barrel portion) ...

 

[SkunkCabbage]

Suppressors aren’t legal in Canada.

 

[Dobermann]

Might be their mil contract audience then ... anyway, back on topic!

 

[rodney482]

20 inches or less on a .308 is LOUD. Handy, but LOUD.

Suppress it

 

[Redrockhunter]

Don't really care for anything less than 20"

 

[silverbullet555]

I don't have any inside intel, but the website says:



However, they *are* available in Canada, Europe, and South Africa: https://www.oceania-defence.com/international-sales

But to bring this a little back on-topic, here's part of a review about the Alpine Hunter:

I noticed that little line too. I don't know of any suppressors that are imported but am only familiar with a half dozen or so brands.

On topic. To me, minimum barrel length is around where the cartridge using burns the vast majority of the powder. If you're too short to burn all the powder, then you're losing that performance.

I run suppressed so I'm going to end up making it long again.

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[0uTkAsT]

Oceania Defence Titanium Alpline Hunter ... about the best there is ... not available in the US (yet) ... https://www.oceania-defence.com/suppressors/762-alpine-hunter.html

I'd be all over that if they (or someone else) offered one (or something just like it) for sale here. At 6.5" and 5.8oz, it would disappear on the end of even an ultralight backcountry rifle. There's currently nothing on the US market that even comes close to that, as far as I know. Even the TBAC Ultra 5 is 9.4oz, and at only 5" it definitely isn't hearing safe.