How many big game tags is too many?

[JP100]

What do they do with all the meat? Market hunting for the Chi-Coms? Being kinda serious and kind of sarcastic here, had someone tell me a while back they cull elk from helicopter in NZ and sell the meat to China

We have market hunting for most game animals here, on private land and public land. Its a free for all, but is based heavily on the market prices which vary alot.

Traditionally the main market has been Europe(German mainly), but now a fair bit is sold to you guys in North America. Very little(if any) that ive heard of goes to China.


Meat wise. Depends on the situation and game. lots is wasted, im not going to pretend it isnt.
Generally guys will always take deer, but lots of goats and pigs are left. Same with those guys in Texas shooting all the pigs, I imagine most of it is left.


It really depends on the situation and feasibility of actually recovering it, and the species/time of year.

We give alot away, and get picky with cuts. I generally dont bother with shoulders/front half of most animals.

 

[OXN939]

 

[Hnthrdr]

We have market hunting for most game animals here, on private land and public land. Its a free for all, but is based heavily on the market prices which vary alot.

Traditionally the main market has been Europe(German mainly), but now a fair bit is sold to you guys in North America. Very little(if any) that ive heard of goes to China.


Meat wise. Depends on the situation and game. lots is wasted, im not going to pretend it isnt.
Generally guys will always take deer, but lots of goats and pigs are left. Same with those guys in Texas shooting all the pigs, I imagine most of it is left.


It really depends on the situation and feasibility of actually recovering it, and the species/time of year.

We give alot away, and get picky with cuts. I generally dont bother with shoulders/front half of most animals.

Thanks for thr reply. It’s hard for a lot of Western US folks to wrap our minds around it. I get it’s a totally different situation in NZ, seen pics and would love to visit someday!

 

[JP100]

Thanks for thr reply. It’s hard for a lot of Western US folks to wrap our minds around it. I get it’s a totally different situation in NZ, seen pics and would love to visit someday!

I think the biggest thing people find hard to understand is our unlimited market hunting and poisonings.

Like an area of public land can be completely destroyed by a government poison drop, or meat hunting. in open country, they can pretty much kill everything

 

[doc holiday13]

Sounds like someone is listening to Matt Rinella


Matt Rinella would have a problem with guys like me I kill waay more than the average hunter.. I also have 3 kids and a 4th on the way. We use it all up . Between hunting tags and depopulation permits, I wanna say we go through 8ish deer, 1/2 a Bovine cow, 1.5 pigs, 1-3 turkeys(wild and domestic raised), 20 chickens, and a handful of squirrels.
If I lived out west I'd probably be cutting out a few deer and replacing them with 1-2 elk. How much is too much? I dunno. We're eating every ounce of what we kill within 12 months

 

[fatlander]

Sounds like someone is listening to Matt Rinella


Matt Rinella would have a problem with guys like me I kill waay more than the average hunter.. I also have 3 kids and a 4th on the way. We use it all up . Between hunting tags and depopulation permits, I wanna say we go through 8ish deer, 1/2 a Bovine cow, 1.5 pigs, 1-3 turkeys(wild and domestic raised), 20 chickens, and a handful of squirrels.
If I lived out west I'd probably be cutting out a few deer and replacing them with 1-2 elk. How much is too much? I dunno. We're eating every ounce of what we kill within 12 months

Think you’re missing the point the OP was making.

Tags are opportunity. Draw tags are limited opportunity. How much limited opportunity does one person really need each fall? The government isn’t who should get the say so. It should come from within.

Having a bunch of OTC tags that aren’t limited isn’t really the rub. It’s the folks having 3 months of weekly draw or capped otc tags for content that’s the rub.


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[Hnthrdr]

Sounds like someone is listening to Matt Rinella


Matt Rinella would have a problem with guys like me I kill waay more than the average hunter.. I also have 3 kids and a 4th on the way. We use it all up . Between hunting tags and depopulation permits, I wanna say we go through 8ish deer, 1/2 a Bovine cow, 1.5 pigs, 1-3 turkeys(wild and domestic raised), 20 chickens, and a handful of squirrels.
If I lived out west I'd probably be cutting out a few deer and replacing them with 1-2 elk. How much is too much? I dunno. We're eating every ounce of what we kill within 12 months

This probably a “hunt quietly” adjacent thread. Also I think Matt would have zero problem with what you are doing. You are killing game, sounds like mostly locally that you and your family are consuming.

From what I understand Matt is against hunting for likes, profit, content & guys killing 4,5,6 elk a year as a single dude and then giving the meat away since they won’t eat a fraction of it ( basically tag hogs) & hard to say you are hunting for meat anymore when you aren’t eating it.

 

[doc holiday13]

Think you’re missing the point the OP was making.

Tags are opportunity. Draw tags are limited opportunity. How much limited opportunity does one person really need each fall? The government isn’t who should get the say so. It should come from within.

Having a bunch of OTC tags that aren’t limited isn’t really the rub. It’s the folks having 3 months of weekly draw or capped otc tags for content that’s the rub.


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While I get the point of what you're saying I would still argue that if you have the time and money to do it, why not?? I'll say the quiet part out loud.. I like killing stuff; so had I dedicated my livelihood to hunting, I'd be doing the same thing.

My personal situation is that I live east coast, so I personally couldn't do more than 1 limited OR OTC western hunt per year. If I lived in CO, ID, WY, NM, AZ, etc.. I'd probably be hitting 1-3 limited hunts per season and still doing all my other regular in state non limited hunts

 

[doc holiday13]

This probably a “hunt quietly” adjacent thread. Also I think Matt would have zero problem with what you are doing. You are killing game, sounds like mostly locally that you and your family are consuming.

I can only listen to Matt's butt hurt arguments in limited quantity, but from what I gather of his viewpoint is that people in my situation should be making opportunity for someone else to get in on the action. I would even argue that people in my situation are in the sub 1% of hunters. last time I looked, the "average" hunter kills 1 deer every other year.

 

[fatlander]

While I get the point of what you're saying I would still argue that if you have the time and money to do it, why not?? I'll say the quiet part out loud.. I like killing stuff; so had I dedicated my livelihood to hunting, I'd be doing the same thing.

My personal situation is that I live east coast, so I personally couldn't do more than 1 limited OR OTC western hunt per year. If I lived in CO, ID, WY, NM, AZ, etc.. I'd probably be hitting 1-3 limited hunts per season and still doing all my other regular in state non limited hunts

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Teddy Roosevelt could have hunted all the over world, wherever and whenever he pleased, without ever having to look out for the common guy or the long term impacts of his actions. He didn’t.

We can all do better, myself included. Having the conversations about self limited and being better to our fellow hunters is paramount to preserving the thing we all love. The hunting industry isn’t going to try to preserve hunting opportunity anymore than Exxon is trying to preserve crude oil reserves. The shot callers want it to be exploited for every buck it’s worth.


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[doc holiday13]

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

So you're implying that instead of killing my food I should go buy it instead? Like I previously said, EVERYTHING gets eaten within 12 months of dying

 

[Hnthrdr]

I can only listen to Matt's butt hurt arguments in limited quantity, but from what I gather of his viewpoint is that people in my situation should be making opportunity for someone else to get in on the action. I would even argue that people in my situation are in the sub 1% of hunters. last time I looked, the "average" hunter kills 1 deer every other year.

Doc, I never heard the “butt hurt” you are speaking of, all I have heard is addressing guys who are killing 20-30 big game animals a season for content, I personally have zero issue with you hunting and eating what you kill especially locally. Now if you came out west and killed an elk and a mule deer and still felt the need to punch all the deer tags you had around you, that might start to feel like you are over harvesting. But I don’t think anyone has any issue with what you or anyone who is feeding their family with locally harvested game and not having to unload a bunch of animals because they can’t handle them

 

[fatlander]

So you're implying that instead of killing my food I should go buy it instead? Like I previously said, EVERYTHING gets eaten within 12 months of dying

Dude you’re only hearing what you want.

I’ve punched about 20 “big game” tags in the past two seasons. I’m just like you. Eat a ton of wild game and purchase a part of a cow from my best friend that’s a rancher.

Exactly 0 of the punched tags were limited tags. I had an elk tag each year that went unpunched that’s an OTC tag for residents. The vast majority are depopulation and bonus doe tags in the same state you reside. I do my absolute best to share my hunting opportunities with as many people as possible. I’m constantly introducing friends to landowners that allow ethical bow hunting on their lands. I can still do better. I’m selfish when it comes to mature deer. Trying to do better, but it’s tough.

The point I was making is we all can do better. And killing for content that’s simultaneously limiting others opportunity needs to stop.


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[doc holiday13]

Dude you’re only hearing what you want.

I’ve punched about 20 “big game” tags in the past two seasons. I’m just like you. Eat a ton of wild game and purchase a part of a cow from my best friend that’s a rancher.

Exactly 0 of the punched tags were limited tags. I had an elk tag each year that went unpunched that’s an OTC tag for residents. The vast majority are depopulation and bonus doe tags in the same state you reside. I do my absolute best to share my hunting opportunities with as many people as possible. I’m constantly introducing friends to landowners that allow ethical bow hunting on their lands. I can still do better. I’m selfish when it comes to mature deer. Trying to do better, but it’s tough.

The point I was making is we all can do better. And killing for content that’s simultaneously limiting others opportunity needs to stop.


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I'm genuinely trying to understand. And I agree that all of us can do better. I would go even further that social media types should be doing LOTS of awareness campaigns regarding anti-hunting and anti-2a legislation

Limited entry. They still had to accumulate points or swipe a card to get the tag.

Should these social media types probably do a few more OTC hunts??. If they are looking at hunting as the privilege it is, then yup, I think they should put just as much effort into media production of a small doe as they do for a monster elk/moose/bear. Given some of these social media folks are making their living off of hunting, I think they should put be putting out better quality production

Do i think the wrong ethics of some of those social media hunters needs to be curbed? Yes. Bad behavior needs to be called out

I don't think the number of animals is relavent UNLESS the meat is going to waste. I have lots of friends that will never hunt but will gladly take a donation of meat so I'm hoping these guys are giving the food to people who need it.. I also don't think these guys would kill as many animals if people weren't consuming their media, so maybe we should also be calling out people consuming the media??

 

[Hnthrdr]

Doc, I think the big thing is trying to realize that hunting at least how it is conducted in the USA as of this year is a limited thing. It’s limited by tags, or space to hunt. So us as hunters should try to be responsible when it comes to hunting. This means to me that we don’t over harvest, or take so many tags that we are taking opportunities from others. It also means that we need to be careful how we display hunting on massive platforms like IG or YouTube. Bloody grip and grins are surefire ammo for the “antis” and we often it’s hunters that provide them that. It also means that we should be careful when putting stuff on the map especially, I’ll give an example. AZ put a spot light on otc archery deer hunts. This nearly cost the residents of Arizona a deer tag opportunity because instantly they were mobbed by tons of folks since a hunting influencers made videos about the opportunity, that opportunity is forever changed and it’s because of IG and YouTube, and the AZ fish and game dept.

We love to espouse conservation, but conservation is realizing if we don’t self regulate we will destroy things, herds, lands or opportunities. I’m not Matt so I have no insights into what he is actually going after I just think that we need to be good stewards of our lifestyle and good ambassadors to the general public with hunting

 

[KurtR]

Doc, I think the big thing is trying to realize that hunting at least how it is conducted in the USA as of this year is a limited thing. It’s limited by tags, or space to hunt. So us as hunters should try to be responsible when it comes to hunting. This means to me that we don’t over harvest, or take so many tags that we are taking opportunities from others. It also means that we need to be careful how we display hunting on massive platforms like IG or YouTube. Bloody grip and grins are surefire ammo for the “antis” and we often it’s hunters that provide them that. It also means that we should be careful when putting stuff on the map especially, I’ll give an example. AZ put a spot light on otc archery deer hunts. This nearly cost the residents of Arizona a deer tag opportunity because instantly they were mobbed by tons of folks since a hunting influencers made videos about the opportunity, that opportunity is forever changed and it’s because of IG and YouTube, and the AZ fish and game dept.

We love to espouse conservation, but conservation is realizing if we don’t self regulate we will destroy things, herds, lands or opportunities. I’m not Matt so I have no insights into what he is actually going after I just think that we need to be good stewards of our lifestyle and good ambassadors to the general public with hunting

So your saying the game and fish is doing a bad job and issuing to many tags? If one guy has 10 or ten guys have ten the same amount is still 10.

 

[fatlander]

So your saying the game and fish is doing a bad job and issuing to many tags? If one guy has 10 or ten guys have ten the same amount is still 10.

Yes. The government tends to do a bad job at managing things. Shocker, right? I can legally kill two antlerless deer a day, as long as I keep buying bonus tags, on property I hunt for 3 straight months. No one in their right mind thinks that’s a good idea. But I can get the tags so why not, according to your logic.

1 person having 10 limited or capped tags to kill for content is 9 people not hunting. No one is saying that person shouldn’t be able to hunt and fill their freezer. Hogging the opportunity to kill animals that will ultimately sell products is the issue at hand.

Separate yourself from the market hunters. They’re wolves in sheep’s clothing. I know you think they’re cool, they shot you a few recycled tips, and even got you a discount code, but they’re not your ally. They want to plunder and profit at everyone else’s expense.

To be frank, I am rooting for the normal guy that finally drew his bighorn tag, a great antelope tag, and a limited elk tag all in the same year. I’m not rooting for the group of pirates making YouTube videos on their “ *insert species* film tour”.


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[Hnthrdr]

So your saying the game and fish is doing a bad job and issuing to many tags? If one guy has 10 or ten guys have ten the same amount is still 10.

Never said that, seems like you inferred too much. That would fall under self regulation, ie: a guy goes wow maybe 1 or 2 tags is enough for me I don’t need 10 tags to myself. Also this varies wildly from state to state, never been back east or Midwest but seems like some areas whitetail are extremely abundant. Out west we tend to not have that issue with our mule deer.

But since you asked I do think fish and game sometimes take the wrong approach in some units/ states. Could also look at the north west corner of the state. It was hammered last winter and they probably should have cut tags to 0 for this year and give them a break, they reduced some but didn’t do what would have been best for the animals they did what was best for the pocket book, or Colorados current approach for example is to issue a ton of mule deer tags including doe tags for areas where mule deer are doing very poorly or cwd is present… but hey if we kill all the deer I guess cwd will be gone right?

 

[KurtR]

Yes. The government tends to do a bad job at managing things. Shocker, right? I can legally kill two antlerless deer a day, as long as I keep buying bonus tags, on property I hunt for 3 straight months. No one in their right mind thinks that’s a good idea. But I can get the tags so why not, according to your logic.

1 person having 10 limited or capped tags to kill for content is 9 people not hunting. No one is saying that person shouldn’t be able to hunt and fill their freezer. Hogging the opportunity to kill animals that will ultimately sell products is the issue at hand.

Separate yourself from the market hunters. They’re wolves in sheep’s clothing. I know you think they’re cool, they shot you a few recycled tips, and even got you a discount code, but they’re not your ally. They want to plunder and profit at everyone else’s expense.

To be frank, I am rooting for the normal guy that finally drew his bighorn tag, a great antelope tag, and a limited elk tag all in the same year. I’m not rooting for the group of pirates making YouTube videos on their “ *insert species* film tour”.


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So I thought the complaint was to many people at the trail head?

It’s an odd conundrum to many people but the want more people to be able to get tags. Glad I got my fill so I’m not taking tags from anyone.

i don’t think any of them are cool. Unless they have a dog with a nfc in front of it’s name but those people are not chipping on the internet.

 

[Southern Lights]

What do they do with all the meat? Market hunting for the Chi-Coms? Being kinda serious and kind of sarcastic here, had someone tell me a while back they cull elk from helicopter in NZ and sell the meat to China

Can sell to dog food makers if not eaten. Some places we'll cull and take good cuts but leave rest. Other places drop poison as last resort if deer populations get too high. Then the area will be wiped out and you don't want to hunt it for a couple months to be safe.

I have seen guys pull up with trailers heaped with a couple dozen deer in them after a night shooting. I usually will shoot what I want to take back to eat but don't cull more than that. For wallabies and rabbits though I'll lay waste.

In some places with tahr, department of conservation (doc) wants you to shoot several nannies for each bull taken. You just leave the animals if you want. Last couple years they have done helicopter ops and bowled over tens of thousands of tahr to contain them only in certain areas. In other places they will again drop poison and wipe out everything so culling is necessary because the poisoning is far worse.

I don't want to give anyone here ideas on the .223 thread, but a mate of mine just knocked over a big red deer with his .17 HMR with a 20gr. bullet neck shot. They don't care how you shoot deer here, just as long as you are shooting them.