How far can you shoot off a backpack?

Dobermann said:
Hi Form,

I'm interested in this comment ... I was attracted to the Spartan for its lightweight, and ability to have stowed in a bino harness and just click in if needed - but I find the magnetic attachment gives some front/rear slop, as well as uncontrollable pan ... what have been your experiences using one?
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I use both the short and long legs. 3 full seasons now. Effective tool. Only slop is slight side to side on mine which goes away when rifle weight is placed on it.
 
Formidilosus said:
You load a bipod forward because of the slack in the legs and recoil. You do not have to do that when shooting off of a pack. The body is straight and neutral behind the rifle- that is a continued line from muzzle, to scope, to eye, to shoulder, to right butt cheek (for RH shooter). The shooters spine is straight, and the rifle line is parallel to the spine.
The trigger hand grip on stock is slightly less than a firm handshake- but not with the tips of the fingers. It’s a locked in static pressure, not continually squeezing. Thumb neutral and inline with the tang. The off hand in general supports the rear of the rifle under the butt; thumb and index fingers pinch the stock on either side, bottom three fingers control the bag or make a fist for the butt to rest on. The firing hand grip and offhand set the position fore and aft, then the shoulder “loads” into the butt with firm, even pressure- probably 10-12lbs worth.


Doing that, most practiced shooters have no issues watching their shots impact with 12-15ft-lbs of recoil. More recoil requires better techniques and more training/practice.
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Very helpful thank you
 
Some of you are assassins! I feel like I can probably shoot off a pack as fat as I can off a bipod. Probably my preferred poison. For me, it’s not always exactly cozy depending on the terrain. Longest I have ever shot at an animal off a pack in prone: elk 550, dall 650, desert 525, and mule deer 700. Im sure it was 90% luck.
 
I really enjoy using my bipod as a kick stand to keep my rifle out of the mud 🤓

as recoil gets heavier, would you begin to lean more in favor of having a consistent bipod for the average shooter ?
 
Formidilosus said:
No doubt. There is nothing wrong with bipods, tripods, or any of it. They are all just a tool laying there. It’s the manner in which they are integrated into our lives that cause problems.
As an example: that picture that Ryan showed had half the people starting that week believing with all of their heart that they needed a bipod or tripod to hit a target. So much so that they were dependent on it. In going through 5 scenarios that we had on animals last year and having them shoot them blind as a “pre test”, we had Ryan go 3 for 5, and I believe two other RS’ers go 2 for 5. Everyone else was either 1 for 5 or 0 for 5.
One scenario/target was a 240 yard 12”x15” target in a gully- two people hit it in 40 seconds. Most misses or failures were due to taking an unbelievably long time to “setup” or having too much crap causing confusion in a simple task. That’s bad. Really bad, especially because everyone there except one or two were “experienced” and accomplished hunters. There is a fundamental flaw for nearly everyone in how they approach shooting. It’s present across nearly all the precision fields- hunting, PRS, etc. That flaw is getting ingrained deeper and deeper due to marketing and influence. It’s the belief that you can buy your way out of a problem by removing the human, and that your current problem can be solved with “this” gadget.

I would bet money I shoot as many, or more rounds from bipod equipped rifles per year than anyone on this board. I don’t mean that crappy- just that I am not “railing against” something I don’t use. I also shoot thousands of rounds a year from tripods. So why am I not using them regularly for hunting? It isn’t ego or because I like or dislike anything. It’s because they aren’t needed, and their use comes at a cost for things that are. Once the decision to shoot has been made, it’s about killing that animal as cleanly and quickly as possible. Anything that is not required to do so, is just a distraction from the real event.

The base idea for killing skillfully in the largest possible amount of scenarios- is that simple is better all else being equal. That means that if I can do a task with a sufficient outcome in two different ways, the simpler way will, across time and space, have a higher success rate. If a task can be accomplished in two different ways, with one way requiring less “stuff”, than it will, across time and space, have a higher success rate than the way that requires more “stuff”.

I am not anti gear- I am anti unneeded bullshit. I can shoot to sub 1.5 MOA regardless of conditions with a rifle using a pack as a rest (it is no better with a bipod, and in fact vertical errors tend to be more with one), and so can others when trained and practiced.
Being that when hunting I have a pack with me, and it’s nearly a sin to ever leave your pack behind, immediately that frees me from one more piece of equipment. So I have no broad spectrum loss in capability with pack versus bipod, I get to remove one piece of equipment that is now extraneous, which means I both free my mind up from a possible decision and I reduce some weight carried, and I save time attaching it, and I can now spend that $100-$300 on something that actually matters… potentially.

It isn’t just me either. I know of two people in dozens that have learned to correctly or optimally use a pack as the people from the picture did, that still generally use a bipod. In some cases bipods/tripods/whatever make a lot of sense. In a lot of cases, most especially spot and stalk mountain hunting, they generally don’t. At least not as a first choice option.
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Good stuff 👍

It’s been a few years ago, but I had a miss that really pissed me off.

I was walking in around 4pm to glass this big canyon (coastal blacktail) just as I get to the head of the canyon I silhouette catches my eye, and it’s not very far, big heavy horned buck looking at me about 140yds… the buck I was there to try to glass up

For some reason I got my bipod in my head, I guess because it was on my rifle, and it didn’t look like a bipod scenario. I deployed the bipod, fully extended and it was too low to see over the grass, already had dropped my pack… now I lay my pack sideways, it’s also too low, so I set the bipod on my pack, taking too much time to get it even on my pack, and ended up having the legs of the bipod on the opposite side of the pack.

Now I’m settling in to shoot, safety off, getting my sight picture and still trying to lock in a little better… as I get into the trigger, one of the bipod legs loses it’s footing off the front of the pack and the trigger breaks missing a very easy shot.

This all happened pretty quickly, but had I not had a bipod hanging off of my rifle, I would have done what was intuitive… stand my pack upright, get behind the rifle, and killed the buck, but for some reason that bipod got in my head like I had to use it… I was pretty irritated with myself, it was so dumb, and I know better.

I guess it was a good lesson to learn, I have never had that temptation since, but that miss still irritates me, so unnecessary.

I still carry a bipod with me (spartan) but it’s never plan A, because it’s generally not the quickest or best option, but it’s light and not hanging on my rifle, so I do carry one.

Much of my practice is off my pack in different positions, because that’s almost always what I’m shooting off of in the field. Either that or shooting off of a stump with my bipod with my pack as a rear support if I have the time and terrain
 
Bring it back up, for the first time I put some honest effort into practicing off a pack.

Was great practice and reminded me that I often am spoiled by tools that make me a little more sloppy.
 
Was just out on a deer/wallaby cull this week. Furthest at 563 meters on deer off pack. Wallabies at 450 meters. I don't use a bipod much now except when sighting in a rifle. Backpack is faster and eliminates a lot of fumble factor when trying to get a shot off quickly at distance.

I use it lying long side flat or edge side (higher elevation) for prone. Then I turn it short side down for sitting supported to shoot over tall grass without needing to pull out sticks or mess with a tripod.
 
Blaw said:
Thank you sir! are any better than others for wet conditions? don't supposed you have a link for the one you bought
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I don't know what brand, its what I grabbed laying around my buddy's shop. I'm sure any of the 3M style 1/8" thick will do. Its been to swampy Alaska, PNW in winter, frozen/ deep snow, and 100F+ and been fine through all that thus far.
 
My longest was a Wyoming whitetail at 232.

I'm not a long ranger. I won't shoot at game beyond 300yds. I do like shooting off my pack whenever possible, though, and much prefer sitting to prone. I still always carry my sticks for when sage and other veg is too tall and dictates a standing shot.
Never been a fan of a bipod, of any description, hanging off my forend.
 
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Shot a hunter match this weekend with no bipod to make open light. Shooting prone with the pack and a rear bag is as good if not better than a bipod, and just as fast, for the FIRST position. If you have to break position and move, you are now carrying 3 things, rifle, front support, and rear support, instead of just rifle and bag, hard to quantify, but definitely slower. Just a trade off that needs to be thought about. With training I would say it's not a huge deal. I do think I probably would have hit at least 1 more target if I had a bipod just due to time, and that 1 point would have got me a trophy😂
Trying to decide between shooting my Bravo without a bipod or my Rokstok with a bipod for the next match. Which one is the most "Rokslide-esque"?? 😂
 
I am a habitual bipod user. However the atlas with long extensions is not the lightest thing so I figured I’d see if I can dump the bipod and shoot from a pack. So this weekend I filled my lid with a puffy so I didn’t have to load my pack with anything and went to the range. I actually shot a better group with the lid and rear bag than with the bipod and rear bag. Two 10 shot groups, one right at 1.2 and the other at .8 at 100 yards. Lid being the latter. Then stretched it out to 700 and went 4/4 on my 8 inch plate off the lid. Might be convinced for hunting to ditch the bipod.
 

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id_jon said:
Shot a hunter match this weekend with no bipod to make open light. Shooting prone with the pack and a rear bag is as good if not better than a bipod, and just as fast, for the FIRST position. If you have to break position and move, you are now carrying 3 things, rifle, front support, and rear support, instead of just rifle and bag, hard to quantify, but definitely slower. Just a trade off that needs to be thought about. With training I would say it's not a huge deal. I do think I probably would have hit at least 1 more target if I had a bipod just due to time, and that 1 point would have got me a trophy😂
Trying to decide between shooting my Bravo without a bipod or my Rokstok with a bipod for the next match. Which one is the most "Rokslide-esque"?? 😂
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Put a tether on your rear bag so that you only have to pick up your pack and move it along with your rifle
 
Ryan Avery said:
@Formidilosus challenged me to ditch my bipod a few years ago and really see how far I could shoot from a backpack. Two years later I have a pretty good idea of what I am capable of. How about you?
I will post up later on what I have learned and my limits.
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Damn! If Custer would have had this group!!!
 
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