How do my 3 shot 1/4 moa groups look?

[Vern400]

That’s a great way to evaluate a rifle. I basically do that with my hunting barrels. I don’t like to shoot long strings if I can avoid it.

Looking at all that data is effectively a 12 shot group when you look at all of them together.

Yeah. A cloverleaf 3 shot group? whatEVER.
4 them with no BS or flyers? You might have a shooter

 

[Marbles]

Looks like you don't know how many makes up 3. Or perhaps fancy counting that includes numbers like eleventy-three.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Right on, that’s what most hinters should do. Field positions and at range. My small sample of friends is that most hunters shoot at 100 off the bench too much and need to practice more within the ranges they will shoot.

Without a specific reasons for shooting at 100, it is mostly just poking holes in paper. I shoot at 100 when I want to eliminate environmental variables. Here, I was testing a bag and I also shoot at 100 to work on fundamentals. Some days, it’s just fun to throw lead and enjoy shooting a group and put a smile on my face.

Couldn't agree more. I have had more fun shooting with friends/coworkers at any distance besides 100 yards and in field type positions than sitting at the 100 on a bench or prone hole punching.

I took my nephew shooting a while back and after a couple warm ups from the prone to check his fundamentals we never shot prone or at a bench the rest of the day. I believe he had way more fun shooting that way.

 

[wind gypsy]

That’s a great way to evaluate a rifle. I basically do that with my hunting barrels. I don’t like to shoot long strings if I can avoid it.

Looking at all that data is effectively a 12 shot group when you look at all of them together.

Maybe its just because my home range ends at 200 yards.. but to me the kraft drill or Carl's drill that was the basis for Form's "Equipment vs practice" post seem to provide lots of value in building capability and understanding in your ability.

 

[hereinaz]

Maybe its just because my home range ends at 200 yards.. but to me the kraft drill or Carl's drill that was the basis for Form's "Equipment vs practice" post seem to provide lots of value in building capability and understanding in your ability.

I like the drills a lot.

Form and all the other shooters out there preach it, practice and train. It helped me. The first time I trained regularly with dry fire, my shooting drastically improved. It wasn’t so much the trigger presses, but actually building and breaking the position.

 

[hereinaz]

Couldn't agree more. I have had more fun shooting with friends/coworkers at any distance besides 100 yards and in field type positions than sitting at the 100 on a bench or prone hole punching.

I took my nephew shooting a while back and after a couple warm ups from the prone to check his fundamentals we never shot prone or at a bench the rest of the day. I believe he had way more fun shooting that way.

Right on! Nothing beats a smile when they hit the 600 yard gong.

 

[TaperPin]

To track large group size, are you supposed to overlap both groups?

Here is a group of 11 shots, but I could only legitimately find evidence of 10. It’s .89 moa per the app. Not bad for a gunner like me.

Gun is my 6 BRA in the Mini Howa shooting 95 grain VLD hunters. Forgot my chronograph…

If I randomly drew any three shots from this group of 10, what are the odds I could draw a 1/4 moa group? Someone smarter than me can do the math…

I counted at least 8 variations where three different shots would go 1/4 moa. How many could you count?

I have pics of the 3 shot groups I found and will post them up later.

This is why 3 shot groups are statistically irrelevant. At least with 10 shots you can see a pattern. I was testing a new ultralight rear bag and I was having a hard time horizontally. I saw that in the scope. The flyers low and high? I could hypotoI threw them, but I would need more data.

I want data, because it is so easy for me to lie to myself about the gun cause I do like to brag about it.
View attachment 625039

That’s a fun little rifle! Just last night an old friend was talking about a different, but similar little 6mm that he shot for years and said it was fun, fun, fun. I definitely need one.

As a three-shot fan, we like to use group size to exclude bad loads, rather than claim any one group is the rifle’s top ability. It’s a lot like a sports tournament - no one game determins the winner.

If someone wants a 1/4 moa gun, after your first two shots that load would be excluded. If it were a different load shots 3 and 4 would exclude it from further testing. Shots 5 and 6 have potential, but 7 puts it over and that load is excluded. 8, 9 and 10 haven’t been excluded yet.

If 8 more loads are tested and 2 more aren‘t excluded, so a total of three three shot groups haven’t been excluded. If those three are shot a second time (making them 6 shot groups) odds are none of them will shoot 1/4 moa when overlayed with the original groups and all would be excluded. If the long odds had one of these 6 shot groups make 1/4 moa, one or two more shots would show its also excluded.

In 40 shots we’ve tested 12 loads with no more than 3 shots per group and determined none will not shoot 1/4moa. Compared to 12 loads x 10 shot groups, we’ve saved 80 rounds.

If all the bullet and powder combinations are excluded from being 1/4 moa, the hardware and/or technique will have to be changed to get to a 1/4 moa rifle. The money saved by not shooting those 80 unnecessary shots can go toward upgrades. 3 shot groups aren’t any better, but we get to the same minimally acceptable accuracy more efficiently.

A simpler version is shooting a load until it exceeds the maximum group size you’re willing to accept, then go to the next if it’s excluded, or stop if it makes it to 10 or 20 and isn’t excluded, but the logistics make reloading more problematic.

 

[hereinaz]

To track large group size, are you supposed to overlap both groups?

That’s a fun little rifle! Just last night an old friend was talking about a different, but similar little 6mm that he shot for years and said it was fun, fun, fun. I definitely need one.

As a three-shot fan, we like to use group size to exclude bad loads, rather than claim any one group is the rifle’s top ability. It’s a lot like a sports tournament - no one game determins the winner.

If someone wants a 1/4 moa gun, after your first two shots that load would be excluded. If it were a different load shots 3 and 4 would exclude it from further testing. Shots 5 and 6 have potential, but 7 puts it over and that load is excluded. 8, 9 and 10 haven’t been excluded yet.

If 8 more loads are tested and 2 more aren‘t excluded, so a total of three three shot groups haven’t been excluded. If those three are shot a second time (making them 6 shot groups) odds are none of them will shoot 1/4 moa when overlayed with the original groups and all would be excluded. If the long odds had one of these 6 shot groups make 1/4 moa, one or two more shots would show its also excluded.

In 40 shots we’ve tested 12 loads with no more than 3 shots per group and determined none will not shoot 1/4moa. Compared to 12 loads x 10 shot groups, we’ve saved 80 rounds.

If all the bullet and powder combinations are excluded from being 1/4 moa, the hardware and/or technique will have to be changed to get to a 1/4 moa rifle. The money saved by not shooting those 80 unnecessary shots can go toward upgrades. 3 shot groups aren’t any better, but we get to the same minimally acceptable accuracy more efficiently.

A simpler version is shooting a load until it exceeds the maximum group size you’re willing to accept, then go to the next if it’s excluded, or stop if it makes it to 10 or 20 and isn’t excluded, but the logistics make reloading more problematic.

You make a good point for when theee shot groups are enough, especially when the rifle, ammo, and shooter should be capable of tiny groups—ie benchrest. A bad group can reasonably eliminate it as an option quickly.

That the opposite assumption as the person who says “look at one amazing group” and ignores larger groups.

Most hunters haven’t shot their guns that much or have gear and ammo set up to do it.

For me, when I can shoot my hunting rifle inside one moa, I start shooting it.

 

[TaperPin]

You make a good point for when theee shot groups are enough, especially when the rifle, ammo, and shooter should be capable of tiny groups—ie benchrest. A bad group can reasonably eliminate it as an option quickly.

That the opposite assumption as the person who says “look at one amazing group” and ignores larger groups.

Most hunters haven’t shot their guns that much or have gear and ammo set up to do it.

For me, when I can shoot my hunting rifle inside one moa, I start shooting it.

Yes!
With fewer ranges, fewer public areas open to shooting, etc. it would do us all good to shoot every chance we get

Thats going to be a great little rifle. What did it end up weighing?