How bad is the hunting in Montana?

[mountainman406]

Like others have stated, I think it really depends on where you hunt in the state and how much time you spend in the field. The past few years with limited time to spend in the field, I got one day a weekend and REALLY struggled to find any elk on public land where I have killed a few bulls before. Again, the trend in elk population has been declining significantly over the years and I see far fewer now than the last time I was able to put one on the ground (in my area at least).

On the flip side, I saw more mule deer, to include a few really nice bucks, this year than I have in the previous 10 years (R4). It was a really encouraging sign to see the rebound since they were almost non-existent for a few years in a row.

To go along with these observations, there has been a dramatic increase in hunting pressure for the area that I generally spend my time in. Parking areas at trailheads that used to have 1-2 vehicles now have 4-5 with many parking and then taking dirtbikes/ebikes in even further....despite the trails being closed. I think that this pressure has more to do with the lack of animals seen than any other factor. While still able to notch tags, the hunting definitively seems to be on the decline from what it was 5-10 years ago and I fear that without changes it will continue to decline. Or even worse......it will cater to a different demographic that truly doesn't care about management as long as they can pay a large some to show up and pull a trigger every year.

 

[Hunt eat repeat]

Things have changed A LOT over the last 15 years in Montana. But I think what a lot of people are upset about is their experience while hunting. Over crowding is a problem.

Our non resident quota for deer is supposed to be 4600 but we are selling 12,852.

Every year I am able to find a place to get away from people but it’s getting harder every year imho.

As far as muledeer are concerned it’s scorched earth in some areas compared to just 5 years ago. I don’t know what the answer is but what’s being done isn’t enough if you ask me.

FWP counted something like 79 deer in unit 410 last winter. I think there is 100 MD buck tags for that unit now with the new draw. I’m sorry but that’s not ok.

As for elk you are right. Ya gotta work for em and or have good access. But there is a pile of elk in this state. Perhaps in some areas they are outcompeting the mule deer.

 

[AHayes111]

Jon boy is not wrong, There is a lot of great hunting in Montana. I can really only speak for SE MT as that is where my experience is.

Waterfowl,
I am not a bird hunter, but it is hard for me to think that we are not in the good old days of waterfowl hunting. There are more ducks and geese then ever.

Upland birds.
Upland birds can be up and down, but I sure don't see any long term down trend. The biggest issue with upland birds is access, not the number of birds.

Turkeys
Turkeys are cyclical and right now we are near the top of the cycle. Maybe more turkeys then ever. Hard to argue that turkeys are trending downward.

Predators
Coyote numbers are high, lion numbers are good, bear numbers are at an all time high. In SE Mt it is again the good old days of Predator hunting.

Whitetails
Whitetails are doing fine. EHD can knock the herd down, but they always recover. The big fires on the forest have changed much of the best whitetail habitat and they are more vulnerable, but quality bucks can still be found. Whitetails are holding steady and even expanding there presence in some places.

Elk
Elk are relatively new to SE MT. It is no secret that SE MT produces some of the biggest elk in the country. I think the the quality has slipped a bit on the forest in recent years, The OP thinks we are producing more big bulls then ever. We are likely both right. The percentage of big bulls is down in the last ten years, but the number of elk is up and there are over a 100 more hunters with bull tags. It is likely we are killing more big bulls then ever. We have a good thing here, We just have to be vigilant to keep FWP from F'in it up with the tag for everyone mentality. They are getting pressure to do so.

Mule Deer
This is the only real stick in the mud and that stick is buried deep. Mule deer are cyclical and we are currently near the bottom of the worst cycle I have ever seen. As a hunter that has seen several complete cycles what bothers me more is the up cycle never is quite as good as the last peak and the bottom of the cycle is increasingly deeper. The long term trend is not good and Public land is taking the worst of it. We can not keep hunting mule deer like we have in the past or sometime in the future there will be a reckoning.

 

[Jon Boy]

Jon boy is not wrong, There is a lot of great hunting in Montana. I can really only speak for SE MT as that is where my experience is.

Waterfowl,
I am not a bird hunter, but it is hard for me to think that we are not in the good old days of waterfowl hunting. There are more ducks and geese then ever.

Upland birds.
Upland birds can be up and down, but I sure don't see any long term down trend. The biggest issue with upland birds is access, not the number of birds.

Turkeys
Turkeys are cyclical and right now we are near the top of the cycle. Maybe more turkeys then ever. Hard to argue that turkeys are trending downward.

Predators
Coyote numbers are high, lion numbers are good, bear numbers are at an all time high. In SE Mt it is again the good old days of Predator hunting.

Whitetails
Whitetails are doing fine. EHD can knock the herd down, but they always recover. The big fires on the forest have changed much of the best whitetail habitat and they are more vulnerable, but quality bucks can still be found. Whitetails are holding steady and even expanding there presence in some places.

Elk
Elk are relatively new to SE MT. It is no secret that SE MT produces some of the biggest elk in the country. I think the the quality has slipped a bit on the forest in recent years, The OP thinks we are producing more big bulls then ever. We are likely both right. The percentage of big bulls is down in the last ten years, but the number of elk is up and there are over a 100 more hunters with bull tags. It is likely we are killing more big bulls then ever. We have a good thing here, We just have to be vigilant to keep FWP from F'in it up with the tag for everyone mentality. They are getting pressure to do so.

Mule Deer
This is the only real stick in the mud and that stick is buried deep. Mule deer are cyclical and we are currently near the bottom of the worst cycle I have ever seen. As a hunter that has seen several complete cycles what bothers me more is the up cycle never is quite as good as the last and the bottom of the cycle is increasingly deeper. The long term trend is not good and Public land is taking the worst of it. We can not keep hunting mule deer like we have in the past or sometime in the future there will be a reckoning.

I can agree with all of this and really respect your opinions Art. Sorry if I get overwhelmingly passionate about this subject.

If I were king for a day- I’d make mule deer hunting in Montana region, or even unit specific. If you want to hunt region 7 for deer- that’s the only region you can hunt that year and it’s a 2 or 3 week season in October. However, the season in the mountainous regions of 3,4 and 5 can all stay the same in my opinion. Also, for my own selfish reasons, I’d love to see a very limited draw unit in r7 to see just what it would produce.

 

[AHayes111]

I can agree with all of this and really respect your opinions Art. Sorry if I get overwhelmingly passionate about this subject.

If I were king for a day- I’d make mule deer hunting in Montana region, or even unit specific. If you want to hunt region 7 for deer- that’s the only region you can hunt that year and it’s a 2 or 3 week season in October. However, the season in the mountainous regions of 3,4 and 5 can all stay the same in my opinion. Also, for my own selfish reasons, I’d love to see a very limited draw unit in r7 to see just what it would produce.

I don't think that this is a bad first step, My only worry about this approach is that logical second or third step is going to be limited draw state wide. In the last twenty five year MT has gone from no LE districts to somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 LE districts. While LE may fix the district where it is implemented, pressure is also shifted to the remaining OTC districts. We can not keep adding LE districts. at some point we will have to rip the band aid off and go LE state wide.
I have hopes that eliminating doe harvest on public land will fix or at least start to address the problem of the downward trend in mule deer numbers on public land. Increasing the quality of the bucks in the east is going to take some form of season structure change and even then I am not confident the increase will be much. The reason I support moving the season to Oct is not about bigger deer. My desire to see more big deer should not out way someone that wants to hunt the rut. Unless it is found that low big deer numbers is detrimental to the herd, bigger bucks is not a good reason to change the season.
My biggest issue with the current mule deer season it is a big negative when it comes to the top issues for hunters going forward. Those Issues are commercialization of and access to deer. In the east river and creek bottoms are mostly private land and the hills are more likely to be public land. The big herds of deer are found on the hay fields on the river and creek bottoms for a reason. In the fall, the best feed is on these fields and the deer are going to take advantage. Does are the first to take advantage, Biologically they need the nutrition more then bucks because they need to replace the energy need to raise a fawn or two and be in good enough shape to insure that they cycle in November. Bucks have no such need, so they do not camp on the fields like the does do. Older bucks especially tend to stay in the hills and only hit the field at nigh or not at all. That changes when the rut starts. I have no idea how many quality bucks I have found back on public during the summer and then seen them miles away on a hayfield during November, The number is easily in the dozens and likely over 100. Back when I first started hunting the season was great, you could get access to just about all of those hayfield. Not so much today. Now most likely you are going to have to pay or know someone to hunt those places. By holding the season durning November instade of October we are transfuring millions of dollars of value from public land hunters to landowners and outfitters every year. While I could benifet greatly with the current season short term, I don't think that the currennt season is best for Montana's sportsman or landowners long term.