Jon Boy
WKR
With constant pitching of season changes, new legislature etc it makes me start wondering just how bad is the hunting in my home state?
In my mid 20s I participated in a number of great SE deer hunts which generally resulted in a 4-6 year old buck being harvested in 24 hours or less. I understand that now that just isn't the case and the lack of mature deer and heavy hunting pressure can be very alarming.
However, outside of mature mule deer buck hunting in R6&7, just how bad is the rest of the hunting in Montana? From my recent observations, it appears there are a plethora of mature whitetails in both the mtns as well as the prairies. We currently hold what I think is the best controlled elk hunting in the world (or close to it) and I can't even keep track of the number of 360-400 in bulls I see getting harvested on public land in a certain part of the state. I also can hardly keep track of the number of very large mule deer bucks I see being harvested in another corner of the state.
I hear the same complaints surrounded around private land elk factories. All of the elk are on private, cant find anything on public, the weather is too nice, and whatever excuse a hunter can have for their lack of success. Between my main hunting partner and I we saw 51 legal bulls on public land during the general rifle season across 4 different mtn ranges. Two of those mtn ranges I would consider heavily influenced by private lands but year after year it seems more and more elk are spilling onto public lands. I also see year after year the amount of hunter effort going down. By the 5th day of season at a major (and popular) trailhead, there was one vehicle parked other than ours. That held true for the remainder of the season and also held true across various different units and ranges. The most bizarre experience I had was the very last day of season, while scouting for next season, was the number of rigs frantically buzzing up and down the road looking to fill their tag. 600 or 700 yards off the road, there were a group of elk with legal bulls feeding away without a care in the world. I didn't even hide the fact I was glassing, halfway hoping one of the road hunters would notice what I was looking at and maybe fill their tags. I can go and on about archery elk hunting general units in montana, but if you cant find elk on public you just arent trying that hard. I do have to admit, this was one of our better seasons, but between the two of us, at the very least one of us shoots a mature 6 point every year and we are able to pass many small bulls along the way.
I see the same blanket statements made for all of Montana's mtn mule deer- no mature deer, too much harvest etc. Between the tracks and actual deer I see while late season elk hunting, coupled with trail cam photos from over the years, I can't help but disagree. The majority of the mtn deer in this state are extremely hard to hunt. For whatever reason these deer just don't use the big, beautiful basins in the high country for summer and fall range and are generally one elevation band below that in the timber, making them extremely hard to hunt even during the rut. Another thing is, the mtn deer in the mountainous areas of the SW, SC and central part of the state generally aren't very big. I'd say the top end for many of them is a heavy compact rack that might hit `140". Attached photo is an example of that and is from a camera that had 18 different bucks on it, with 10 of those deer being 3-5+. This is a range that is blamed for piss poor mule deer hunting. In my opinion, its just a very tough and rugged unit that is heavily timbered and the majority of the deer population isnt even hunted. That doesn't make them immature and its relatively unfair to think you can legislate your way to big deer when in fact we have old deer. We will never have 3 year old 180" deer that parts of wyo and colorado pump out every year.
With all of this said, am I alone in what I'm observing? Is hunting that bad in Montana, or do we live in the era of instant gratification and everyone just assumes with average effort they deserve a big buck and bull every few years? Are all of the overcrowding issues stemmed around a few popular units and sections of state and block management? Or am I just some lucky hunter that doesnt experience massive hunter pressure while experiencing good to great hunting most years?
I'd love to see mandatory reporting with a large, required questionnaire- units hunted, seasons hunted, days hunted, animals harvested, and whether or not on public land. However, that would honestly be for my own selfish reason to have better date for my own research purposes. I'd love to find a way to ease the mule deer buck hunting pressure in regions 6 and 7 and so far I haven't found a great solution that wouldn't have massive unintended consequences. The best I can come up with is very limited mule deer doe harvest restricted to private land only, and making residents and nonresidents choose a region that they can only hunt. I dont play the non res blame again and dont buy it for a second. I hate that because it would really limit my own hunting, but I do know it could significantly limit some pressure. As far as general elk hunting goes, you could have a year-round season, and most would give up in a few days and arent tough enough to go where elk go and pack one out.
The one thing that I do know for a fact is, these animals are so dang smart and crafty and their will to live is extraordinary. Their ability to adapt to new technology as well as avoid any sort of detection is incredible to observe. Spending the last 15 years of my life studying maps, reports, these very forums and putting it all into use in the field has been so humbling, frustrating, and at times, rewarding. Another thing I know is, hunting for bull elk and big mule deer bucks is just freaking tough. It always has been and it always will be.
In my mid 20s I participated in a number of great SE deer hunts which generally resulted in a 4-6 year old buck being harvested in 24 hours or less. I understand that now that just isn't the case and the lack of mature deer and heavy hunting pressure can be very alarming.
However, outside of mature mule deer buck hunting in R6&7, just how bad is the rest of the hunting in Montana? From my recent observations, it appears there are a plethora of mature whitetails in both the mtns as well as the prairies. We currently hold what I think is the best controlled elk hunting in the world (or close to it) and I can't even keep track of the number of 360-400 in bulls I see getting harvested on public land in a certain part of the state. I also can hardly keep track of the number of very large mule deer bucks I see being harvested in another corner of the state.
I hear the same complaints surrounded around private land elk factories. All of the elk are on private, cant find anything on public, the weather is too nice, and whatever excuse a hunter can have for their lack of success. Between my main hunting partner and I we saw 51 legal bulls on public land during the general rifle season across 4 different mtn ranges. Two of those mtn ranges I would consider heavily influenced by private lands but year after year it seems more and more elk are spilling onto public lands. I also see year after year the amount of hunter effort going down. By the 5th day of season at a major (and popular) trailhead, there was one vehicle parked other than ours. That held true for the remainder of the season and also held true across various different units and ranges. The most bizarre experience I had was the very last day of season, while scouting for next season, was the number of rigs frantically buzzing up and down the road looking to fill their tag. 600 or 700 yards off the road, there were a group of elk with legal bulls feeding away without a care in the world. I didn't even hide the fact I was glassing, halfway hoping one of the road hunters would notice what I was looking at and maybe fill their tags. I can go and on about archery elk hunting general units in montana, but if you cant find elk on public you just arent trying that hard. I do have to admit, this was one of our better seasons, but between the two of us, at the very least one of us shoots a mature 6 point every year and we are able to pass many small bulls along the way.
I see the same blanket statements made for all of Montana's mtn mule deer- no mature deer, too much harvest etc. Between the tracks and actual deer I see while late season elk hunting, coupled with trail cam photos from over the years, I can't help but disagree. The majority of the mtn deer in this state are extremely hard to hunt. For whatever reason these deer just don't use the big, beautiful basins in the high country for summer and fall range and are generally one elevation band below that in the timber, making them extremely hard to hunt even during the rut. Another thing is, the mtn deer in the mountainous areas of the SW, SC and central part of the state generally aren't very big. I'd say the top end for many of them is a heavy compact rack that might hit `140". Attached photo is an example of that and is from a camera that had 18 different bucks on it, with 10 of those deer being 3-5+. This is a range that is blamed for piss poor mule deer hunting. In my opinion, its just a very tough and rugged unit that is heavily timbered and the majority of the deer population isnt even hunted. That doesn't make them immature and its relatively unfair to think you can legislate your way to big deer when in fact we have old deer. We will never have 3 year old 180" deer that parts of wyo and colorado pump out every year.
With all of this said, am I alone in what I'm observing? Is hunting that bad in Montana, or do we live in the era of instant gratification and everyone just assumes with average effort they deserve a big buck and bull every few years? Are all of the overcrowding issues stemmed around a few popular units and sections of state and block management? Or am I just some lucky hunter that doesnt experience massive hunter pressure while experiencing good to great hunting most years?
I'd love to see mandatory reporting with a large, required questionnaire- units hunted, seasons hunted, days hunted, animals harvested, and whether or not on public land. However, that would honestly be for my own selfish reason to have better date for my own research purposes. I'd love to find a way to ease the mule deer buck hunting pressure in regions 6 and 7 and so far I haven't found a great solution that wouldn't have massive unintended consequences. The best I can come up with is very limited mule deer doe harvest restricted to private land only, and making residents and nonresidents choose a region that they can only hunt. I dont play the non res blame again and dont buy it for a second. I hate that because it would really limit my own hunting, but I do know it could significantly limit some pressure. As far as general elk hunting goes, you could have a year-round season, and most would give up in a few days and arent tough enough to go where elk go and pack one out.
The one thing that I do know for a fact is, these animals are so dang smart and crafty and their will to live is extraordinary. Their ability to adapt to new technology as well as avoid any sort of detection is incredible to observe. Spending the last 15 years of my life studying maps, reports, these very forums and putting it all into use in the field has been so humbling, frustrating, and at times, rewarding. Another thing I know is, hunting for bull elk and big mule deer bucks is just freaking tough. It always has been and it always will be.
