How are people affording these crazy home prices?

[BroncoAZ]

Pensions are often based on hours worked during the last few years of employment. Add in a disability claim and you are sailing high.

Not for the feds. It's calculated as years worked as a percentage of your average high-3 consecutive, same as when I was working in a hospital. Is there a state government I should be going to work for? Or is there a private industry employer you're thinking of?

A disability claim isn't a pension. If you were military, you paid into it with blood sweat and tears. If you were private or government, you would have paid into the insurance program, usually getting paid less than your private sectors peers all along. Only one of those is government money, though, but if you want to crusade against military disability be my guest.

I'm an accountant, not a CPA (yet) but I am familiar with accounting for pensions. Maybe you can elaborate a little more specifically, might make a good paper for my state board of accountancy.

You guys got me curious on just how lucrative these pensions are. Making more on a pension than working doesn’t seem to add up..

Research “pension spiking”, the City of Phoenix fire department was having major issues with it about 8 years back.

Pension spiking - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[eamyrick]

You guys got me curious on just how lucrative these pensions are. Making more on a pension than working doesn’t seem to add up..

Very few pensions that I’m aware of—and I am in tune with a lot-do you make more in retirement than while working. I’m part of one of the highest paying in the country but it’s not without 23 years of public service. I won’t get into the pro and cons of that here. Usually ours pays a couple hundred bucks or so more than you are making at work when you retire. The pension is funded by the employee and employer. For reference we pay 15% in for 23 years. In the private market that’s also alot of retirement money no matter how you slice it. Downside of a pension is that there isn’t any generational wealth transfer because when you or wife die it’s gone. Further, if you leave prior to 20 years, you get zero city money, and your money is paid out without any interest paid. You could leave it in but if you started early in life it’s locked up for a while. Most of the pension guys here wish they could go back to day 1 and be in a 401k instead.

 

[eamyrick]

There ar some programs I’m aware of that count your high 3 years instead of your last 3 years. Some of those programs allow for the number calculation based on overtime so guys will work as many days allowed by policy/law to get their numbers crazy high. Not without risk or sacrifice. Basically a recipe for divorce but guys do it. All of these plans have a board that should make fiscally responsible rules about what is allowed and makes sense for the long term health of the pension. Some are led by morons not unlike the private sector. Public distaste of pensions is leading to them being tiered away which is probably a good thing because it means less money tied up with the government and more freedom to put your check into the free market.

 

[Beendare]

You guys got me curious on just how lucrative these pensions are. Making more on a pension than working doesn’t seem to add up..

The Public worker unions get what they want. Whenever a public worker inc police and firemen wanted a raise, they got it. Now we have Firemen in our area making $120k their first year....and many making $200k a yr plus. Same for LEO's and Highway patrol. I know a couple of county sheriff deputies...not the Sheriff himself...that make $200k a year.

My neighbor retired from the FD at 52 on disability, [Ha, disabled] full lifetime medical with something like 80% of the avg of his last 3 yr salary. These guys pile on the OT and save vacation to bump that retirement up. He is probably making $160k a yr at 53. He runs the local 10k's, Jogs to the gym every morning- seems the Benadryl [or whatever] he was pounding to mess with his heart rate right before he retired is out of his system now.

Another guy I know through my BIL was a Fire chief in San Jose....retired on disability same deal, probably making $200k plus in retirement...and rode his bike across country with his wife after retiring. Its not just cops and firemen....A couple of our cities around here went bankrupt due to more civil service workers on disability...than on the actual payroll working. [now I'm going to have the cops and firemen ticked at me for ratting them out]

Your tax dollars hard at work. Its terrible and this loose spending will hurt the future generations.

This Biden infrastructure bill is more of the same social spending for salarys, health care, child care, all disguised as "Infrastructure"....build back betters hogwash and should be called , "Buy more votes"so they can stay in power.

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[elkyinzer]

Insightful comment^.........IMO you are right on the money

>

Needs vs. Wants. Our "needs" in the collective, societal sense now are insane and getting worse by the generation. My favorite is all the wokest people I know are balls deep into world travel and experiencing all the best of touristy travel. Not everyone can be Christopher Columbus you dumbphucs. At least Greta sails in a damn boat for now, I give props to her for that.

 

[Fatcamp]

The Public worker unions get what they want. Whenever a public worker inc police and firemen wanted a raise, they got it. Now we have Firemen in our area making $120k their first year....and many making $200k a yr plus. Same for LEO's and Highway patrol. I know a couple of county sheriff deputies...not the Sheriff himself...that make $200k a year.

My neighbor retired from the FD at 52 on disability, [Ha, disabled] full lifetime medical with something like 80% of the avg of his last 3 yr salary. These guys pile on the OT and save vacation to bump that retirement up. He is probably making $160k a yr at 53. He runs the local 10k's, Jogs to the gym every morning- seems the Benadryl [or whatever] he was pounding to mess with his heart rate right before he retired is out of his system now.

Another guy I know through my BIL was a Fire chief in San Jose....retired on disability same deal, probably making $200k plus in retirement...and rode his bike across country with his wife after retiring. Its not just cops and firemen....A couple of our cities around here went bankrupt due to more civil service workers on disability...than on the actual payroll working. [now I'm going to have the cops and firemen ticked at me for ratting them out]

Your tax dollars hard at work. Its terrible and this loose spending will hurt the future generations.

This Biden infrastructure bill is more of the same social spending for salarys, health care, child care, all disguised as "Infrastructure"....build back betters hogwash and should be called , "Buy more votes"so they can stay in power.

>

>

Yup. It happens all over. I think the more people become aware the more they will reign it in, but those contracts were in place and people used them to good effect.

 

[eamyrick]

Man I didn’t really how damn good these Cop jobs are?!!??!! Y’all should all head down to Austin, San Fran, DC, Seattle, Portland etc and get on the “gravy train.” Sounds like a piece of cake.

 

[Fatcamp]

Add up pension disability and SSI disability and you can easily exceed your working wage. Especially if the years required were full of overtime.

 

[Fatcamp]

Man I didn’t really how damn good these Cop jobs are?!!??!! Y’all should all head down to Austin, San Fran, DC, Seattle, Portland etc and get on the “gravy train.” Sounds like a piece of cake.

I have an acquaintance who did very well upon retiring from NYPD. Not a job I could have done and in my opinion he earned it, but math is what I'm talking about.

 

[BroncoAZ]

I have an acquaintance who did very well upon retiring from NYPD. Not a job I could have done and in my opinion he earned it, but math is what I'm talking about.

My neighbors were teachers on Long Island. They retired 25 years ago at 50 and 51, their combined pensions are $170K per year for life plus cost of living increases. Listening to them brag about their cake walk teaching gigs back then (only working 6 hours per day, summers off) I don’t think they earned it.

 

[Silveroddo]

You guys got me curious on just how lucrative these pensions are. Making more on a pension than working doesn’t seem to add up..

I think that’s going out with the baby boomers in a lot of cases. I work for a state agency and it’s based on a percentage of our high 5 based on years of service. The math I’ve done is showing 60% or a little better at the 32-35 year mark. Used to be a rule of 90 based system but the guys pulling the pin right now are the end of that for us and it seems like they’re closer to 100%. Some places may be crazy like California life guards or something but for the most part they seem to be getting phased out. Did I also mention we contribute 6% of our gross pay to the state retirement system for our pensions?

 

[MattB]

The Public worker unions get what they want. Whenever a public worker inc police and firemen wanted a raise, they got it. Now we have Firemen in our area making $120k their first year....and many making $200k a yr plus. Same for LEO's and Highway patrol. I know a couple of county sheriff deputies...not the Sheriff himself...that make $200k a year.

My neighbor retired from the FD at 52 on disability, [Ha, disabled] full lifetime medical with something like 80% of the avg of his last 3 yr salary. These guys pile on the OT and save vacation to bump that retirement up. He is probably making $160k a yr at 53. He runs the local 10k's, Jogs to the gym every morning- seems the Benadryl [or whatever] he was pounding to mess with his heart rate right before he retired is out of his system now.

Another guy I know through my BIL was a Fire chief in San Jose....retired on disability same deal, probably making $200k plus in retirement...and rode his bike across country with his wife after retiring. Its not just cops and firemen....A couple of our cities around here went bankrupt due to more civil service workers on disability...than on the actual payroll working. [now I'm going to have the cops and firemen ticked at me for ratting them out]

Your tax dollars hard at work. Its terrible and this loose spending will hurt the future generations.

This Biden infrastructure bill is more of the same social spending for salarys, health care, child care, all disguised as "Infrastructure"....build back betters hogwash and should be called , "Buy more votes"so they can stay in power.

>

>

In San Jose, we already had that happen. In 2011 or 2012 and in response to a $3.5B unfunded pension liability, the city had to cut officer salaries by 10%. We had a bunch of police leave for the departments of surrounding cities.

If memory serves, they were approaching or had reached the point of paying more dollars to people who no longer worked in the PD than those who were still working.

I believe that their retirement was based on an average of the last 3 years worked. As it was explained to me, there was a code where younger officers would give up shifts to guys in their last 3 years to pump up their OT and thus their pension benefit.

 

[elkyinzer]

There is a theory behind pensions to reward those who sacrifice private sector potential to give their talent and even their lives to the common good. I think that makes sense on an individual level but it has a history of being abused because people are people.

 

[bozeman]

Abuse it, you lose it…….

 

[wind gypsy]

The Public worker unions get what they want. Whenever a public worker inc police and firemen wanted a raise, they got it. Now we have Firemen in our area making $120k their first year....and many making $200k a yr plus. Same for LEO's and Highway patrol. I know a couple of county sheriff deputies...not the Sheriff himself...that make $200k a year.

My neighbor retired from the FD at 52 on disability, [Ha, disabled] full lifetime medical with something like 80% of the avg of his last 3 yr salary. These guys pile on the OT and save vacation to bump that retirement up. He is probably making $160k a yr at 53. He runs the local 10k's, Jogs to the gym every morning- seems the Benadryl [or whatever] he was pounding to mess with his heart rate right before he retired is out of his system now.

Another guy I know through my BIL was a Fire chief in San Jose....retired on disability same deal, probably making $200k plus in retirement...and rode his bike across country with his wife after retiring. Its not just cops and firemen....A couple of our cities around here went bankrupt due to more civil service workers on disability...than on the actual payroll working. [now I'm going to have the cops and firemen ticked at me for ratting them out]

Your tax dollars hard at work. Its terrible and this loose spending will hurt the future generations.

This Biden infrastructure bill is more of the same social spending for salarys, health care, child care, all disguised as "Infrastructure"....build back betters hogwash and should be called , "Buy more votes"so they can stay in power.

>

>

Those are some surprising numbers. That said, I wouldn’t be a cop for $200k these days. No thanks.

Firefighter on the other hand..

Bay Area really is like a different world.

 

[Stikbrandon]

Couple things.

don't bitch about the house prices In The area you live in or have grown up in and now can’t afford, after all, if the local population wouldn’t sell for profit you all wouldn’t be priced out.

half you keyboard warriors are waiting for the in-laws to keel over so you can capitalize on the fruits of there labor.

I bought my house on 23 an hour at the age of 25 in 2013 for 283k in Southern California! I was ******* broke, flat the **** broke. Had 300 hundred dollars to my name andnitwith a 2k mortgage. I saved for 5 years paying 1550 a month for an apartment untill I had 15k in the bank

If I decide to sell my house and move out of state, I’m gonna do it with a smile on my face knowing I paid cash for a house in a great community and a better life. Iv busted my ass to get to where I am currently at and not a soul can hold that over my head

iv read 9 pages of great knowledge and information but for the guys that are bitching about everything being to expensive, life is about choices, kids are expensive probably should have pulled out.

No one wants to be house broke, but your mortgage won’t change dramatically over the years so as you own you home and your wages go up, new job, promotion whatever, your mortgage stays the same. Ask the dudes that payed 80k for a house In The 60’s on 2 bucks an hour if it was cheap…0

 

[Tbonespop]

A very wise friend told me this about 20 years ago - and I quote "You need to grow up. There will always be people less deserving, less hard working, and less talented that make more money than you. Grow up and get over it. Control what's within YOUR control and stop worrying about what other people do or don't make for a given job."

I realized at that point he was right and as pissy as it made me feel at the time, that was a very profound moment in my life.

 

[jlh42581]

Pensions are often based on hours worked during the last few years of employment. Add in a disability claim and you are sailing high.

Or you roll over indefinite amounts of vacation for 25 years and cash it all out at the end.

 

[browning2480]

How can you be abusing a pension program if you are not breaking the rules? Seems to me they are working hard for their retirement and some of you all don’t like that lol. This goes back to one of the problems. People don’t like to see other people succeed and want a part of what they worked for.

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

Research “pension spiking”, the City of Phoenix fire department was having major issues with it about 8 years back.

Pension spiking - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I guess it's a matter of calling cashed in vacation days "not working." Personally i think you have to be absolutely insane not to take your vacation days (and my union agreement has a rollover cap) but I also know the attitude that my parents had toward people taking vacations.

Damned if you take your vacation for being lazy and entitled, damned if you don't take the days and then cash em out in the end.