How accurate is accurate enough?

[Axlrod]

The actual number of rifles that will shoot 1/2 moa is probably less than 10%. You have an above average Christensen.

 

[huntsd]

Looks like a shooter to me. How do your groups look at 500-600? That’ll tell you all you need to know

 

[Travis Bertrand]

i would be happy with that however I understand your frustration. I have had a few CA rifles and couldn't get them to group any better than that. I shoot for .5 MOA or better but am happy with 1 MOA or better to take afield. I also put a lot of emphasis on SD/ES which yours looks really good. If I was getting 1 MOA with sub par ES/SD then I would be worried.

 

[TradLife406]

Well worth a listen. It's a life changing podcast episode.


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[Coleredding00]

Well worth a listen. It's a life changing podcast episode.


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I’ve listened to it multiple times. I understand their point but for a hunting rifle if i can have 3-5 shots consistently under my threshold thats good enough for me.


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[eric1115]

I’ve listened to it multiple times. I understand their point but for a hunting rifle if i can have 3-5 shots consistently under my threshold thats good enough for me.


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Respectfully, if that's your position then you don't understand their point.

10, 20, 30 shot groups are not because you might need to shoot 10, 20, or 30 times. They are so that you will know for sure what the rifle does.

If you shoot a .5 moa 3 round group today and another .5 moa 3 round group tomorrow whose center is .5 different, did you have a zero shift? Or did those 3 round groups just happen to be on opposite sides of your rifle's true 1.25 moa cone of fire? Without a large group to establish your real group size, all these .25 to .5 moa 3 shot groups are meaningless. You can use several 3-5 shot groups if you overlay them, but only if you account for where they all land relative to POA.

 

[Coleredding00]

Respectfully, if that's your position then you don't understand their point.

10, 20, 30 shot groups are not because you might need to shoot 10, 20, or 30 times. They are so that you will know for sure what the rifle does.

If you shoot a .5 moa 3 round group today and another .5 moa 3 round group tomorrow whose center is .5 different, did you have a zero shift? Or did those 3 round groups just happen to be on opposite sides of your rifle's true 1.25 moa cone of fire? Without a large group to establish your real group size, all these .25 to .5 moa 3 shot groups are meaningless. You can use several 3-5 shot groups if you overlay them, but only if you account for where they all land relative to POA.

And I have done 20 round composite groups made of 5 round groups, true 10 round groups, and a lot of 5 round groups, and i would say that it’s very consistently a .8 moa rifle.

I understand the statistical relevance of sample size, it’s simple math, but If my point of impact is consistent and my rifle will shoot 5 rounds at whatever group size i find relevant to the use case, then in my opinion i don’t care what the overall dispersion of a 30 round group is.


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[Wyobohunter]

I have been beating my head off a rock for 300 rounds trying to get my Christensen arms 6.5 creed to print smaller groups. As of right now it will consistently print .8 MOA 5 round groups. By that i mean the largest i get is .8, with so,e coming in as low as .3 but it’s the minority. I was really striving for .5, but I think I have found the limitation of what this rifle will do with the components I have chosen to use. Am I being unrealistic for expecting a 10 lb carbon fiber rifle to shoot 1/2 minute? Will this rifle at this level prove to be a limiting factor for a 500-600 yard MER deer and elk rifle? In my head the smaller the cone of fire of the rifle the larger the margin for error in my shooting, but I may be over thinking things. I’m pulling my hair out to the point I’m about to call the gunsmith and get a barrel ordered. Give it to me straight, do I need to switch components and keep pushing or am I concerned for nothing? For the record I have other heavier rifles than I can consistently print sub .5 groups from a bipod and rear bag, so other than the shooting a slight heavier bullet out of a significantly lighter rifle and dealing with recoil I believe I am capable. I’ve swapped scopes, checked rails, tweaked powder charge and seating depth. Chrono numbers are good, SD is around 8 depending on the string.

143 ELDX
H4350
Christensen barreled action
Pure precision stock, bedded.
View attachment 816620View attachment 816623

I’d be happy with that.

 

[6.5x284]

First long range match I shot I had factory ammo that was 1.25” for a 5 shot group on a newer gun. I shot a top 20 for my first ever match at a bigger two day event. Since I’ve played with a .5” gun and 1” gun and they seem to hit steel still the same. There are calculators out there that show the percentage you’d miss if you had a .75” vs 1” gun and it’s a tiny difference. Get a good velocity when the barrel is settled and go kill shit.


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[repins05]

And I have done 20 round composite groups made of 5 round groups, true 10 round groups, and a lot of 5 round groups, and i would say that it’s very consistently a .8 moa rifle.

I understand the statistical relevance of sample size, it’s simple math, but If my point of impact is consistent and my rifle will shoot 5 rounds at whatever group size i find relevant to the use case, then in my opinion i don’t care what the overall dispersion of a 30 round group is.


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Agree….

 

[grappling_hook]

Am I being unrealistic for expecting a 10 lb carbon fiber rifle to shoot 1/2 minute?

Yep.

Will this rifle at this level prove to be a limiting factor for a 500-600 yard M5-600ER deer and elk rifle?

Nope.

Give it to me straight, do I need to switch components?

Nope.

Nice. Gtg, this accuracy won't be a limiting factor.

 

[grappling_hook]

First long range match I shot I had factory ammo that was 1.25” for a 5 shot group on a newer gun. I shot a top 20 for my first ever match at a bigger two day event. Since I’ve played with a .5” gun and 1” gun and they seem to hit steel still the same. There are calculators out there that show the percentage you’d miss if you had a .75” vs 1” gun and it’s a tiny difference. Get a good velocity when the barrel is settled and go kill shit.


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Those calculations have been posted on this forum before, and it was pretty eye-opening. Even the difference between .5" and 1.25" was pretty much lost in the noise of other factors.

 

[General RE LEE]

I’d get out and start smacking some steel at distance to see what the rifle is capable of. I think it will show you that you’ve got a great shooting rifle.

This. It's easy to get wrapped up in group size at 100 yards and not see a rifle's capability at longer distances. I was amazed at the hit rates at 600 yards on a load that struggled to get below 1 MOA.

1 MOA is excellent accuracy for a hunting rifle at typical distances.

 

[isleofGough]

I can routinely shoot 1/2 MOA with a M4a3 clone but expect 2 MOA from a light rifle with hunting ammo. The rounds are not as accurate as hand loaded target bullets and the light rifles will not be as stable for you or keeping the scope in alignment.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Shooting tight groups is great, but as others have stated you need to try shooting from field simulated positions. Where does that first shot hit in regard to your aiming point from kneeling, prone, standing with a tripod etc? I think that is more of a realistic goal to consistently hit within 1/2 moa of your aiming point with your first shot than if you can put all 5 shots in 1/2 moa. For hunting anyway, after the first shot your 1/2 moa group won't matter because your target will probably be hauling butt if you don't put the first shot where it needs to go.