How accurate is accurate enough?

[Coleredding00]

I have been beating my head off a rock for 300 rounds trying to get my Christensen arms 6.5 creed to print smaller groups. As of right now it will consistently print .8 MOA 5 round groups. By that i mean the largest i get is .8, with so,e coming in as low as .3 but it’s the minority. I was really striving for .5, but I think I have found the limitation of what this rifle will do with the components I have chosen to use. Am I being unrealistic for expecting a 10 lb carbon fiber rifle to shoot 1/2 minute? Will this rifle at this level prove to be a limiting factor for a 500-600 yard MER deer and elk rifle? In my head the smaller the cone of fire of the rifle the larger the margin for error in my shooting, but I may be over thinking things. I’m pulling my hair out to the point I’m about to call the gunsmith and get a barrel ordered. Give it to me straight, do I need to switch components and keep pushing or am I concerned for nothing? For the record I have other heavier rifles than I can consistently print sub .5 groups from a bipod and rear bag, so other than the shooting a slight heavier bullet out of a significantly lighter rifle and dealing with recoil I believe I am capable. I’ve swapped scopes, checked rails, tweaked powder charge and seating depth. Chrono numbers are good, SD is around 8 depending on the string.

143 ELDX
H4350
Christensen barreled action
Pure precision stock, bedded.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

Way over-thinking. Go forth and kill with confidence. Your heavier 1/2 minute guns will probably not hold that cone for a statistically significant group of 10+. You have a VERY accurate gun right there. I'd bet big money that the guns accuracy will not be the limiting factor on hits or misses at distance.

 

[Coleredding00]

Way over-thinking. Go forth and kill with confidence. Your heavier 1/2 minute guns will probably not hold that cone for a statistically significant group of 10+. You have a VERY accurate gun right there. I'd bet big money that the guns accuracy will not be the limiting factor on hits or misses at distance.

I’ve taken my 22 GT to 10 rounds and it has held 1/2 moa, but I know what you’re saying. I think I need to put the paper away and start shooting it at range to build my confidence and skill with it.

 

[IDbrushswimmer]

Looks like a great shooting rifle to me. I’d be stoked if ANY of my current rifles would print a 10 shot group like that. Honestly for me as long as it stays within 1.25” (for ten shots) I’m content for a 500 yd gun.

 

[waspocrew]

I’d get out and start smacking some steel at distance to see what the rifle is capable of. I think it will show you that you’ve got a great shooting rifle.

 

[hereinaz]

If you can’t hit steel at distance from field positions it doesn’t matter what it looks like on paper.

1 moa is enough.

 

[wyosam]

Go kill stuff


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[Crowmangler]

That shoots better than you will in field situations. Now ditch the bench & practice real world field shooting positions & work on getting yourself as solid as possible off rocks, pack, etc. Learn to call wind, etc. It will help you much more than dialing that group in another 0.1 MOA
Great shooting btw... love my CA

 

[Coleredding00]

If you can’t hit steel at distance from field positions it doesn’t matter what it looks like on paper.

1 moa is enough.

See and this has been my dilemma, i can’t get myself to stop thinking i can take up some of the inherent loss of accuracy of positional shooting by making the rifle shoot better. But i suppose that’s all in my head.

 

[Quicksilver]

Shoot that thing at distance. And think of your accuracy as kill box sized targets. Will it hit the lethal area at the distances you want to hunt? The moment I did that and stopped chasing paper the better things got. I don’t spend much time at 100yds anymore, it’s all spent in the 600yd range now.

 

[TaperPin]

Most people are more range limited by estimating wind drift, than a few tenths of MOA.

In calm wind your rifle is definitely capable. Wind is much different at 600 than 500 - consistently hitting a 10” paper or steel plate at 600 can be twice as hard.

A paper plate at distance will let you know what the shortcomings of your setup are, and what max range should be.

 

[Wrench]

I always encourage people to work on being thing hitters vs group shooters.

1. Prove the gun

2. Prove thy self

3. Kill chit with confidence

 

[Jason Snyder]

See and this has been my dilemma, i can’t get myself to stop thinking i can take up some of the inherent loss of accuracy of positional shooting by making the rifle shoot better. But i suppose that’s all in my head.

Have a few stiff drinks.

 

[hereinaz]

See and this has been my dilemma, i can’t get myself to stop thinking i can take up some of the inherent loss of accuracy of positional shooting by making the rifle shoot better. But i suppose that’s all in my head.

It’s in your head. We all can succumb to the siren sound of tiny groups at 100 yards. It’s easy to get stuck there. Happened to me.

Go shoot field positions on steel or rocks.
Go do some one day PRS matches or NRL Hunter.

It will be a change, and might even hurt your confidence at first. But it’s necessary.

Get after it.

 

[rclouse79]

It looks accurate enough to me, and more importantly precise enough. Nice rifle.

 

[PathFinder]

If you look at it from a mathematical perspective, using Bryan Litz WEZ tool, you'll find that the difference in hit rate between a 1.5 MOA rifle and a .5 MOA rifle is negligible out to the ranges you mentioned. The difference in hit rate between .8 MOA and .5 MOA is so small as to be fundamentally unmeasurable without a massive data set.
That rifle is ready to hunt shooting groups like that. It's time to move on to field shooting. As mentioned above, wind is going to be what makes or breaks your ability in the field. The rifle itself is plenty capable at .8 MOA.

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[TaperPin]

Am I being unrealistic for expecting a 10 lb carbon fiber rifle to shoot 1/2 minute?

As for the rifle itself, I think you’ve worked hard enough to know and have come to terms with it’s a .8 MOA rifle, and it probably shot like a .8 MOA rifle from the first two boxes. If you didn’t have other rifles that group better I’d question how the rifle is shot, but that’s not an issue.

I’ve spent a grand and ended up with a great barrel that shot really well effortlessly - from the first load ran down the barrel until it was shot out out, it was very consistent and easy to make nickel-size groups at 200 yards with nothing more than a 6x scope. The very next barrel in the same finest grade from the same barrel maker grouped twice that large. Definitely no guarantee.

To really give myself a better perspective on hunting accuracy for a while I started shooting at 20” squares of cardboard at long distance - about the same depth as a mule deer. Without a small aiming point it’s much more realistic and will humble you - the tiny groups aren’t quite as tiny.

Having said that, if you feel better with a 1/2 MOA rifle, by all means have a better barrel installed. A more accurate barrel gives better feedback on everything from wind drift, to field accuracy, not to mention the holes in animals you take. When a dead calm 500 yard shot with rock steady position doesn’t land within a fist-size area where you were aiming, something caused it. Under hunting pressure some shooters function well and some don’t - that’s good to know when determining your maximum range. 1/2 MOA isn’t making a difference if hunting nerves are only good for 2 MOA, but if the super accurate gun is what it took to identify the situation, all the work put into the rifle paid for itself and training under pressure should be the new focus.

In the end you’ll be limited by wind drift, so anything that helps give real world feedback is money well spent - post your rifle on Gun Broker, or get it packaged up to send to the gunsmith for a new barrel.

 

[Carl Ross]

Am I being unrealistic for expecting a 10 lb carbon fiber rifle to shoot 1/2 minute?

A factory carbon barreled rifle? Yes, in my opinion. Even if you changed the barrel there’s no guarantee the new one would shoot your 143’s better. It could, but it’s a roll of the dice.

Will this rifle at this level prove to be a limiting factor for a 500-600 yard MER deer and elk rifle?

No. Mechanical accuracy would likely be the last reason you’d miss.

In my head the smaller the cone of fire of the rifle the larger the margin for error in my shooting, but I may be over thinking things.

I hear you, and while it does work that way directionally, it doesn’t just “add” together. Two sources of potential error don’t add linearly to a total error, statistically. I believe those who are more knowledgeable in the field than I would call this a root mean squared error.

 

[TuckTruck]

The bullet is going to run out of steam to expand consistently way closer than a miss due to the accuracy of the rifle.
Go forth and kill.

 

[pacoalcracker]

That is a great shooting rifle. It took me several tries and then 5 grand for a Mark Bansner custom build to get to a true and consistent 1/2" 7.5lb scoped rifle with factory loads. A new barrel does not guarantee anything..it could get worse. I have 2 CA Ridgeline FFT Ti rifles, a 308 and a 7prc. The 308 shoots around 1/2" or so but the 7prc is about the same as yours, both with factory loads. That is good enough for me for lightweights and I have no intentions to go beyond 500yds. Take that rifle hunting with full confidence.