Hornady Podcast 226 Match Bullets for Hunting

[Coleredding00]

The most important thing i got out of it, is that the cavity behind the plastic point is not QCd in the eldm. They admit that they don’t measure whether the gap behind the tip is consistent, and also that the harness of the lead is not checked. This would lead me to believe the stories of more inconsistent expansion on bullets like the 108 vs the 103.

 

[RME]

Maybe if they were meaning just their BTHP bullets.

I listened to that part again and didn’t get any impression they were calling out other companies bullets. It sounded to me like they were probably referring to their own HPBT match bullets and didn’t think to clarify it. There’s a number of HP Sierra Gamekings and IIRC one of Joyce Hornady’s favorite hunting bullets was the old 25 cal 120 gr HP (flat base though, not a BT) out of a 257 Weatherby.

 

[streamerfish]

I listened to that part again and didn’t get any impression they were calling out other companies bullets. It sounded to me like they were probably referring to their own HPBT match bullets and didn’t think to clarify it. There’s a number of HP Sierra Gamekings and IIRC one of Joyce Hornady’s favorite hunting bullets was the old 25 cal 120 gr HP (flat base though, not a BT) out of a 257 Weatherby.

Yeah, thinking about it more. that could be the case.

 

[DangerRanger]

So I’m supposed to believe that hornady doesn’t care about variability in eldm core makeup to the point that
1. They are unacceptable to hunt game with
2. They are acceptable to be represented by their marketing and examples into ballistic gel for TAP line for law enforcement use

Mmmmmkay sure thing

 

[RancherJohn]

I took my elk this year with the 170 EOL out of my 6.8 Western. I went around talking to different people about it at the Western hunt expo and I got told time after time not to shoot any game in the shoulder. Just so happens that their jaws would hit the floor when I would show them a shattered scapula and a broken leg bone on the offside with an accompanied exit hole. Also having massive amounts of damage, with a blood trail downhill 3 feet away from the elk.

I did get finish listening to the podcast and they did mention their testing of the ELD-M. I had to laugh when they talked about 16" not being enough penetration for elk. When processing the elk, his body width didn't even come up to my knee. In my opinion, I don't think elk are that big, to qualify that, I am around 15-18 hand tall horses every day. I would put an elk around the size of a pony for the vital cavity and all.

Obviously, the podcast is through a marketing lens and informational lens. Still interesting to listen to and look at the comments as they come in.

Most people never think about it to the level you did regarding height relative to your knee on the ground or a horse, let alone taking a tape measure to one (also most aren't carrying a tape measure into the woods).

16" of penetration on a behind the ribs quartering away shot will only get you liver, both lungs, and heart. 16" broadside will get both shoulders and everything in between.

 

[Ratamahatta]

73 grain eldm that I found in the offside rib behind the front shoulder, clean pass through on a doe last season. Didn't even get to see it drop in the scope it was that instant.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Hornady must need to up the sale of ELDXs this week.

 

[Lou270]

Of course they haven't tested it, they just have all the info and pictures regarding it's terminal performance, even going so far as to claim large wound cavities. But definitely not tested.

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They said they don’t test for a performance window or regularly QC anything to ensure consistent results bullet to bullet lot to lot. The LE gel tests are showing that eldm does not penetrate deeply and within the fbi min/max window so do not overpenetrate which is a concern with LE ammo, particularly rifle. That is why they use a soft bullet like eldm. A hunting bullet would exceed max penetration desired by LE putting bystanders at risk. They do have some harder bullets in their “hard” barrier ammo.

Lou

 

[Castle Rock]

The most important thing i got out of it, is that the cavity behind the plastic point is not QCd in the eldm. They admit that they don’t measure whether the gap behind the tip is consistent,

The garage that they spew is unbelievable, this is their match bullet, if the gap behind the point varies the only way that could happen is if the cores vary in size and therefore weight, hardly an endorsement for a target bullet

 

[rharbaugh]

The most important thing i got out of it, is that the cavity behind the plastic point is not QCd in the eldm. They admit that they don’t measure whether the gap behind the tip is consistent, and also that the harness of the lead is not checked. This would lead me to believe the stories of more inconsistent expansion on bullets like the 108 vs the 103.

I didn't listen to the podcast, but if what you say is true, i'm calling BS on the QC anecdote on the ELDM. They intentionally put those bullets in the ammo the sell to law enforcement agencies. Hornady is going to try and tell us that they don't QC bullets that are used in life and death situations? Right...

 

[streamerfish]

I didn't listen to the podcast, but if what you say is true, i'm calling BS on the QC anecdote on the ELDM. They intentionally put those bullets in the ammo the sell to law enforcement agencies. Hornady is going to try and tell us that they don't QC bullets that are used in life and death situations? Right...

Without going back and actually quoting them, and keeping it short and simple.

They don't do regular hunting performance qc testing on ELDM bullets.

The whole point was the eldm doesn't go through whatever regular hunting bullet specific testing and qc testing they do. Not that it has never had any terminal testing done.

Said another way......they admit that they know alot of people use them, they admit that they probably work well depending on the task, but because it doesn't follow the same hunting bullet specific testing procedures, and frankly because they believe that to be a good hunting bullet it needs a bit more controlled expansion characteristics/less fragmentation/more penetration. They don't officially recommend it, and consider it use at own risk.

I mean, your not going to get more out of them then saying yeah it probably works pretty good if your looking for a huge wound cavity and 18" of penetration. But we are looking for a bit less frag and a bit more penetration in our hunting bullets. Use at your own risk, and please don't use the A-tips or BTHP bullets, they really suck for hunting.

 

[tfanchin]

For 300PRC, I had a nearly lost an elk due to fragmentation of the Hornady 225gn ELD-M.

It ended up being a 55 yard shot. Hit what should have been a double lung. No blood trail. Luckily, we did everything correctly and found the elk 300 yards away with zero blood trail and no blood under the body. Found the front lung lacerated to hell from approximately 8 fragments. The other lung was untouched.

Speed was chronographed at 2,765fps the week before at sea level.

Long story short, ELD-Ms are out for hunting in my book. I’ll be shooting the 212gn ELD-X until I work up some custom loads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jordan Smith]

Without going back and actually quoting them, and keeping it short and simple.

They don't do regular hunting performance qc testing on ELDM bullets.

The whole point was the eldm doesn't go through whatever regular hunting bullet specific testing and qc testing they do. Not that it has never had any terminal testing done.

Said another way......they admit that they know alot of people use them, they admit that they probably work well depending on the task, but because it doesn't follow the same hunting bullet specific testing procedures, and frankly because they believe that to be a good hunting bullet it needs a bit more controlled expansion characteristics/less fragmentation/more penetration. They don't officially recommend it, and consider it use at own risk.

I mean, your not going to get more out of them then saying yeah it probably works pretty good if your looking for a huge wound cavity and 18" of penetration. But we are looking for a bit less frag and a bit more penetration in our hunting bullets. Use at your own risk, and please don't use the A-tips or BTHP bullets, they really suck for hunting.

This. They don't say that they don't do any QC on the ELD-M, they say they don't do QC on the tip/core cavity geometry that is specific to terminal performance for hunting. My experience (mainly with the 108 gr 6mm, 147 gr 6.5mm, and 180 gr 7mm) has been that the smaller cavity behind the tip of the ELD-M typically leads to moderate initial expansion and wound channels, which I prefer. There are abundant online reports of overly aggressive expansion with the ELD-X, which may be a result of the larger cavity behind the tip in the ELD-X leading to more aggressive initial expansion.

 

[Jordan Smith]

For 300PRC, I had a nearly lost an elk due to fragmentation of the Hornady 225gn ELD-M.

It ended up being a 55 yard shot. Hit what should have been a double lung. No blood trail. Luckily, we did everything correctly and found the elk 300 yards away with zero blood trail and no blood under the body. Found the front lung lacerated to hell from approximately 8 fragments. The other lung was untouched.

Speed was chronographed at 2,765fps the week before at sea level.

Long story short, ELD-Ms are out for hunting in my book. I’ll be shooting the 212gn ELD-X until I work up some custom loads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure the ELD-X is the cure, if you're against fragmentation. This is exactly why the Nosler Partition was invented. What is old, is new again.