Hornady GMX warning

BooneAK

FNG
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
22
I don't care about feelings when it comes to bullet performance. I care about expansion, bullet integrity, and penetration. And most of all, I care about lethality, which is what our beloved wildlife deserves. I also might have gotten sucked in by the marketing.

I shoot .308, which along with .30-06, has killed more of everything than all the other calibers put together, but I like them, too, so let's not get into it. .308 is not a rocket in terms of velocity -- we all know that -- but it works.

Last year, I killed a beautiful caribou bull with Hornady's Outfitter GMX in .308, 165 gr. Who doesn't want water-proofed primers and weather tough cartridges, right, with 95% weight retention and 1.5x expansion? But at 400 yards, those bullets went through that bull and left pencil holes. It took three shots before he fell over. That happens sometimes, and I was and am still thrilled, but I'll never use GMX again.

Look at the data I've attached from Hornady's catalog, and you'll see why. Is a .308 generally thought of as a 400-yard capable rifle? No doubt. (Do I want to shoot farther than that? No.) But look at the velocities of the Outfitter at 400 yards (1881 FPS) compared to the 2000 FPS expansion. No wonder I got pencil holes.

Call Hornady tech support and ask them what the minimum velocity is to get 50% expansion. They don't know. They'll say that the velocities for the .308 GMX bullets (150, 165, and 180) all range from 2300-3600 FPS. OK. Where did that 2300 come from, and if that's reliable, corresponding to some level of expansion on that end of the velocity spectrum, are you telling me that the .308 is only a 150 yard rifle, because that's what their own tables seem to suggest. Follow?

So, if you use GMX, make sure you're getting enough velocity to get the kind of expansion we all want, like Hornady shows us below at 2700 FPS or higher for .30 caliber, and that's going to exclude a lot of calibers at a lot of ranges with GMX bullets. For as much hype that goes into marketing 95% weight retention and 1.5x expansion, you'd think manufacturers -- for the sake of the welfare of wildlife -- would be eager to share what minimum velocities are required to actually obtain whatever percentage expansions and not make us make the inferences.







Screen Shot 2021-04-01 at 12.21.12 PM.pngScreen Shot 2021-04-01 at 12.28.16 PM.png
 

Hoodie

WKR
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
982
Location
Oregon Cascades
From what I´ve heard the GMX is basically the hardest of the monos, but this sort of story is what makes me nervous about them in general.

I´d like to switch. I don´t think the health impacts to humans from lead in meat are a particularly grave concern, but I don´t like the idea of poisoning the occasional bird of prey.

FWIW I think the Barnes LRX is the best option in monos currently on the market for expansion at lower velocities. Pretty sure they advertise 1800 fps. The also have the best BCs of any mono I´ve seen.

Iĺl be using the ELD-X this year, because it´s what I have on hand. It put my cow elk down last year with authority out of a 6.5 CM. Hard to argue with the results from premium lead bullets.

Next year Iĺl likely give the LRX a try. I think adjusting shot placement is a good idea with the monos, particularly in slow cartridges. I would consider aiming for heavy bone to facilitate expansion. Probably less meat loss on a shoulder shot with a copper bullet vs a fragmenting lead one.
 

robtattoo

WKR
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
3,517
Location
Tullahoma, TN
So you came on here bitching about a bullets performance that you clearly didn't do any research on before you went hunting with it. Now its the bullets fault. Tell me more about how the bullet sucks.
Literally this. If you didn't know that you needed to drop bullet weight & increase velocity to get monos to function as intended, well, it's not like there's the entire sum of all human knowledge at your fingertips. Oh. Wait....
 

prm

WKR
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
2,243
Location
No. VA
Rather than restate what's already been said, doing the great internet pile-on, I'll just say thanks for starting the discussion. At least one other person will get the hint that going light with monos really is an important consideration.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
666
I don't care about feelings when it comes to bullet performance. I care about expansion, bullet integrity, and penetration. And most of all, I care about lethality, which is what our beloved wildlife deserves. I also might have gotten sucked in by the marketing.

I shoot .308, which along with .30-06, has killed more of everything than all the other calibers put together, but I like them, too, so let's not get into it. .308 is not a rocket in terms of velocity -- we all know that -- but it works.

Last year, I killed a beautiful caribou bull with Hornady's Outfitter GMX in .308, 165 gr. Who doesn't want water-proofed primers and weather tough cartridges, right, with 95% weight retention and 1.5x expansion? But at 400 yards, those bullets went through that bull and left pencil holes. It took three shots before he fell over. That happens sometimes, and I was and am still thrilled, but I'll never use GMX again.

Look at the data I've attached from Hornady's catalog, and you'll see why. Is a .308 generally thought of as a 400-yard capable rifle? No doubt. (Do I want to shoot farther than that? No.) But look at the velocities of the Outfitter at 400 yards (1881 FPS) compared to the 2000 FPS expansion. No wonder I got pencil holes.

Call Hornady tech support and ask them what the minimum velocity is to get 50% expansion. They don't know. They'll say that the velocities for the .308 GMX bullets (150, 165, and 180) all range from 2300-3600 FPS. OK. Where did that 2300 come from, and if that's reliable, corresponding to some level of expansion on that end of the velocity spectrum, are you telling me that the .308 is only a 150 yard rifle, because that's what their own tables seem to suggest. Follow?

So, if you use GMX, make sure you're getting enough velocity to get the kind of expansion we all want, like Hornady shows us below at 2700 FPS or higher for .30 caliber, and that's going to exclude a lot of calibers at a lot of ranges with GMX bullets. For as much hype that goes into marketing 95% weight retention and 1.5x expansion, you'd think manufacturers -- for the sake of the welfare of wildlife -- would be eager to share what minimum velocities are required to actually obtain whatever percentage expansions and not make us make the inferences.







View attachment 279106View attachment 279105

Good write up and info for everyone. We can all learn from other people's mistakes.
Thank you for sharing.

You may have pencil holed him because you were using a MOA scope. Next time run mils and you will have better expansion. Mils are way better in every way.

Also...you need to stop shooting a 308 and get yourself a 6GT...a 6GT would have killed that caribou with one shot. Dead. Trade your rifle off get a 6GT and mil scope and you will be a killing machine.
 

sndmn11

"DADDY"
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
10,395
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Rather than restate what's already been said, doing the great internet pile-on, I'll just say thanks for starting the discussion. At least one other person will get the hint that going light with monos really is an important consideration.

I don't think that is blanket true. A person could shoot a 130gr tsx from a .308 and it would probably be a similar impact velocity at long range as a 165gmx. Every bullet is designed for s specific purpose with a specific ideal impact velocity window. If you choose to put a bullet into a scenario it wasn't made for, you shouldn't expect outstanding results.

I'm not going to take a quartering to shot with an eld-x on a moose at 75yds, or a 300yd flat nose tsx shot on a phorn from a 30-30 and expect my bullets to make hornady or barnes' calendar.
 

prm

WKR
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
2,243
Location
No. VA
Sndmn11, I agree with your scenario. I just said it’s an important consideration. Though I tend to lean light and fast as I tend to not shoot far. (.338 160 TTSX at 3k).
Also, I miss the Morrison area. Grew up not too far away and raced MX at Lakewood and went to Bandimere.
 
OP
B

BooneAK

FNG
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
22
Wow--first time I've encountered trolls on here. Didn't mean to make you cry. Funny, their responses entirely affirm my point: don't use GMX unless you've done your homework. Not exactly what Hornady marketing is trying to convey, is it, and, as stated, their tech support still isn't resolving. Hey, trolls, look up ad hominem. Everyone else, thx!
 
OP
B

BooneAK

FNG
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
22
Totally with you on trying to cut down on the lead for raptors, too.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
1,254
Location
Pacific North West
Wow--first time I've encountered trolls on here. Didn't mean to make you cry. Funny, their responses entirely affirm my point: don't use GMX unless you've done your homework. Not exactly what Hornady marketing is trying to convey, is it, and, as stated, their tech support still isn't resolving. Hey, trolls, look up ad hominem. Everyone else, thx!
There’s really not any homework to do. It has a recommended impact velocity on the box as well as estimated velocity’s for the cartridge the buyer is using. Seems pretty cut and dry. Box says 2050 FPS at 300 yards and shows minimal expansion at 2000 so logic says keep shots under 300 yards. Seems hornady makes it pretty easy and clear.
 

JFK

WKR
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Messages
832
The problem is that guys switch to copper and want to shoot the same weight bullet as they shoot in lead. Ammo mfg’s know this, but instead of educating the buyer they offer copper in the same weights as lead to make it more appealing. They offer the lighter bullets to handloaders, but not as loaded ammo, which is what the majority of hunters use. The result is lots of stories like the OP posted. I’d be shooting 130gr copper out of a 308. +3000fps muzzle velocity.
 

thinhorn_AK

"DADDY"
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
11,219
Location
Alaska
The problem is that guys switch to copper and want to shoot the same weight bullet as they shoot in lead. Ammo mfg’s know this, but instead of educating the buyer they offer copper in the same weights as lead to make it more appealing. They offer the lighter bullets to handloaders, but not as loaded ammo, which is what the majority of hunters use. The result is lots of stories like the OP posted. I’d be shooting 130gr copper out of a 308. +3000fps muzzle velocity.
Ive had good luck with the 150g barnes and 150-161g hammers out of my 308. The barnes 250 works well in the 375HH too.
 

sndmn11

"DADDY"
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
10,395
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Here are tested minimum FPS IMPACT velocity to achieve consistent 1.5x diameter expansion for Barnes bullets I inquired about. These are direct from Barnes. The take away for me is that bullet weight is not a determining factor on bullet design. One might look at the 165ttsx and 190lrx in .308, and assume the 165 will expand best, but be ignorant to what the bullet was actually intended to do at certain velocities. If I wanted to shoot stuff far away, I would want to look at how fast my bullet was traveling at those far away distances, and pick the appropriate bullet.

.264”/6.5mm 127 gr LRX- 1600 fps

.284”/7mm 139 gr LRX- 1400 fps

.284”/7mm 145 gr LRX- 1600 fps

.308” 175 gr LRX- 1600 fps

.308” 190 gr LRX- 1500 fps

.308” 168 gr TTSX- 1500 fps

.308” 180 gr TTSX- 1500 fps

.308 165 gr TTSX- 1800 fps
 
Top