Hornady ELD-X Ammo issues

[S-3 ranch]

It narrows the wound. A narrower wound damages less tissue.






Because they kill slowly with just lung shots.

interrupting the pulmonary system and circulatory system is usually easiet
way of preventing suffering
i don’t think eldx doesn’t kill , the lead core keeps on traveling after the tinfoil thin jacket explodes

 

[Formidilosus]

interrupting the pulmonary system and circulatory system is usually deadliest
way of preventing suffering

What are you trying to say?

 

[TheHammer]

Looks like you hit high to me. Had the same thing happen on my first pronghorn. I was shooting 129sst and hit the spine. The hole in the hide looked very similar to that.

The entrance was closer to the brisket than the spine. The jacket was lodged in several pieces along the spine, the core was no where to be found. I believe the rib it hit on entry caused this.. and I also believe that if it didn’t shock the spine, this animal would’ve ran.

 

[Pramo]

Good discussion and I still learning about guns, I'm not a big rifle hunter but killed 100+ big game critters with a bow so I aim for soft tissue and lungs. Bought my first rifle a few years ago and killed a 6ft bear and 200 pound 8 point whitetail with a 6.5 143 ELDX. No exit hole and bullet was in the offside hide but punched the lungs out and each went sub 30 yards.

I know nothing but it seems if you are trying to accurately destroy the lungs ELDX seem good and not great for breaking bones.

 

[Dobermann]

It narrows the wound. A narrower wound damages less tissue.

Hi Form, sorry ... I knew that part already.

What I was meaning is that, when you've shown why ideas of 'knock-down power' and 'energy on target' are not valid in the past, you've talked about 'how wide, how deep' ... so I guess my question was, if harder bullets at shorter ranges are create less wide wound channels, can you say more about the mechanism by which they kill/work in this context? Cheers.

 

[Formidilosus]

so I guess my question was, if harder bullets at shorter ranges are create less wide wound channels, can you say more about the mechanism by which they kill/work in this context? Cheers.

I’m not sure exactly what you mean?

However, they kill/work in exactly the same way as any other bullet- they just crush and tear less tissue. A mono (any bullet) only crushes what tissue it physically touches. The velocity of the bullet passing through tissue causes a temporary stretch cavity to form by the passage of the projectile (that is- the tissue stretches radially outward) and if above 2,200 to 2,000’ish fps, some of that tissue will stretch fast enough/wide enough to tear, causing the temporary strength cavity to be apart of the permanent wound cavity.

Imagine a bullet like a Barnes moving through tissue- it’s crushing what it physically touches- so when optimal about .5 to .6 of an inch circle due to the expanded diameter. While it’s passing through that tissue, the tissue is expanding or stretching outward as the bullet passes, and if above 2,200’ish FPS the tissue exceeds its elasticity and some of it tears- with a mono it might another .5 to 1 inch or so around the bullet where tissue tears. So we ultimately get about a 1-2” wound path or width. Visually a 20-30 inch long rod, 1” in diameter or so.

Now, imagine a bullet that fragments rapidly- such as an ELD-X since it is this thread. As it is passing through the tissue, it also is expanding/deforming and crushing the tissue it physically touches, so you get that same .5 to .6 inch permanent channel. As well, the tissue is being stretched outward away from the path of the bullet, but as this bullet penetrates it is constantly losing pieces of lead and copper jacket as fragments that are being spun outward from the main bullet. So you get stretched tissue- which can be up to 30x the diameter of the bullet, and then at its stretched limit where copper or high weight retention bullets the tissue would just rebound- a piece of copper jacket hits it and causes a massive tear in the tissue; not unlike stretching a rubber-band to its limit, and then touching it with a scaple- POP. Now, unlike the nonsense stated about lead bullets throwing lead “all through the meat”, small particles of lead and copper jacket do not have the mass to travel more than a couple inches from the main bullet in tissue. So those fragments are generally within 2 to 3 inches of the bullet path, however due to stretching and tearing of that tissue in the temporary stretch cavity with those fragments, you get a wound that is 4 to 8 inches wide. So now, imagine you have a rod that is 20+ inches long and 2+ inches in diameter, but it also has a football attached to the to the entrance side of the rod.

 

[SDHNTR]

I’m not sure exactly what you mean?

However, they kill/work in exactly the same way as any other bullet- they just crush and tear less tissue. A mono (any bullet) only crushes what tissue it physically touches. The velocity of the bullet passing through tissue causes a temporary stretch cavity to form by the passage of the projectile (that is- the tissue stretches radially outward) and if above 2,200 to 2,000’ish fps, some of that tissue will stretch fast enough/wide enough to tear, causing the temporary strength cavity to be apart of the permanent wound cavity.

Imagine a bullet like a Barnes moving through tissue- it’s crushing what it physically touches- so when optimal about .5 to .6 of an inch circle due to the expanded diameter. While it’s passing through that tissue, the tissue is expanding or stretching outward as the bullet passes, and if above 2,200’ish FPS the tissue exceeds its elasticity and some of it tears- with a mono it might another .5 to 1 inch or so around the bullet where tissue tears. So we ultimately get about a 1-2” wound path or width. Visually a 20-30 inch long rod, 1” in diameter or so.

Now, imagine a bullet that fragments rapidly- such as an ELD-X since it is this thread. As it is passing through the tissue, it also is expanding/deforming and crushing the tissue it physically touches, so you get that same .5 to .6 inch permanent channel. As well, the tissue is being stretched outward away from the path of the bullet, but as this bullet penetrates it is constantly losing pieces of lead and copper jacket as fragments that are being spun outward from the main bullet. So you get stretched tissue- which can be up to 30x the diameter of the bullet, and then at its stretched limit where copper or high weight retention bullets the tissue would just rebound- a piece of copper jacket hits it and causes a massive tear in the tissue; not unlike stretching a rubber-band to its limit, and then touching it with a scaple- POP. Now, unlike the nonsense stated about lead bullets throwing lead “all through the meat”, small particles of lead and copper jacket do not have the mass to travel more than a couple inches from the main bullet in tissue. So those fragments are generally within 2 to 3 inches of the bullet path, however due to stretching and tearing of that tissue in the temporary stretch cavity with those fragments, you get a wound that is 4 to 8 inches wide. So now, imagine you have a rod that is 20+ inches long and 2+ inches in diameter, but it also has a football attached to the to the entrance side of the rod.

Sweet geezus that was thorough.

 

[Tmac]

That is technically true though. In general, the ELD-X does perform adequately at high velocity impacts, and is much better than most at low velocity impacts- I am speaking to tissue damage and time to incapacitation. I do not use ELD-X nearly as much as some others bullets and they are not my favorite, however overall from 3,000fps to 1,600fps or so impacts, I’m not sure there is a better bullet for killing across the board.

Lots of people consider this bullet a failure, even though the tissue damage was fantastic and the animal was incapacitated in a few seconds-

View attachment 502838

Begs the classic question about recovered bullets that “failed”. At what point in the death of the animal did the bullet fail?

That said I stopped using the ELD-X to kill whitetail does. 150 gr variety from a 280Rem. Went back to LRX‘s to help minimize meat loss. If I was hunting for a mature buck, the ELD-X would be on the short list of desired bullets for its efficacy from near to far.

 

[Formidilosus]

Begs the classic question about recovered bullets that “failed”. At what point in the death of the animal did the bullet fail?

That said I stopped using the ELD-X to kill whitetail does. 150 gr variety from a 280Rem. Went back to LRX‘s to help minimize meat loss. If I was hunting for a mature buck, the ELD-X would be on the short list of desired bullets for its efficacy from near to far.

Haha. I’ll be going to a 22 hornet for does, for the same reason.

 

[Tmac]

Haha. I’ll be going to a 22 hornet fir does for the same reason.

Funny, I have a buddy that uses that exact cartridge for meat does. They are mostly smaller whitetails, but a few mule deer too. Surprisingly effective, but he is an excellent shot keeps the range moderate.

 

[Mike Islander]

Begs the classic question about recovered bullets that “failed”. At what point in the death of the animal did the bullet fail?

That said I stopped using the ELD-X to kill whitetail does. 150 gr variety from a 280Rem. Went back to LRX‘s to help minimize meat loss. If I was hunting for a mature buck, the ELD-X would be on the short list of desired bullets for its efficacy from near to far.

ELD-X would be fine in the neck, but not always a safe shot.

 

[Tmac]

ELD-X would be fine in the neck, but not always a safe shot.

View attachment 504081

Rarely if ever would I take a neck shot. But when done right very effective. I was shooting for the lungs just behind the shoulder. On some close in shots there was enough goo blown into the shoulder area I decided to go back to the LRX.

 

[Elite]

They did, both made it about 20-30 yards. Just looking for something with more penetration and less meat damage. More so concerned for use on a future moose hunt. Guess the easy answer would be to not hit them in the shoulder but things happen, and would like to know my bullet is going to make it through if it does happen.

I wouldnt be using a 6.5 bullet on a moose

 

[Reburn]

I wouldnt be using a 6.5 bullet on a moose

tell us why not.

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[Mike Islander]

Rarely if ever would I take a neck shot. But when done right very effective. I was shooting for the lungs just behind the shoulder. On some close in shots there was enough goo blown into the shoulder area I decided to go back to the LRX.

Wouldn't shooting just behind the "elbow" all but eliminate ruined meat and kill extremely fast by destroying heart as well as both lungs?

 

[Tmac]

Wouldn't shooting just behind the "elbow" all but eliminate ruined meat and kill extremely fast by destroying heart as well as both lungs?

Sure. Did that with several deer. The rapid opening eld-x created enough material moving around that a noticeable amount of blood was ejected up into the shoulder muscles. It’s a pain to get out and if I‘m hanging my deer for anytime, I want less blood around the meat not more.

Most of these were fairly close smallish deer, whitetail does taken for the table. Bullet worked as designed. Kills quickly. So for the conditions we hunt in there and for our intended use, a slower opening design works much better. Nothing against the eld-x, I use it for other hunts often.

 

[dieselchessy]

Cow elk, 317yds, 6.5 creedmoor, 22” barrel, factory 143eldx ammo, slight quarter to, no exit, didn’t find the entrance till dragging rubbed the hair off, cow ran around 40 yards then stood around several minutes, then laid down w/head up for a few minutes before dropping her head.

 

[BowMan86]

I wouldnt be using a 6.5 bullet on a moose

I know several people who have and been successful, but I do not believe I would use the ELDX bullets on a moose. They may work fine in certain situations but I do not like the amount of meat damage they have the potential of creating and lack of penetration. My original post was prior to truly understanding the construction of the bullets and I realized they are not necessarily designed for deep penetration, especially at close range with a high velocity caliber. I switched to Nosler accubonds for the 6.5 PRC and purchased a 30 Nosler shooting 200gr partitions for bigger game like moose, bear, etc…

 

[JP1200]

This is a 212 eld-x that I took a bull elk with 2 years ago. 3000 fps mv at 300ish yards. I hit second to last rib dead center on entrance and nicked another on the far side after passing through both lungs. Bullet was just under the hide, core and jacket separated but were still together. I was nervous using the bullet after this thread and others, but it performed just fine in my case.

 

[jpmulk]

Ive never lost an animal when using the 7mag 162grain eldx. All have dropped in my sight.

- 370 class bull elk at 400 yards
- cow elk at 420 yards
- cow elk at 30 yards
- mule deer buck at 500 yards
- black bear at 40 yards
- antelope at 450 yards
- mule deer buck at 225 yards
- mule deer buck at 200 yards

Ive been very pleased with it.