Homeless, How do towns deal with it?

[lil' bear]

Have you tried releasing coyotes?

 

[Hnthrdr]

S

I feel like one thing gets lost in conversations like this. There is a massive difference between two types of being homeless. There’s the ones that are doing drugs, shitting on the streets, etc and the ones that prefer a transient life style.

There was a homeless dude where I grew up. He just wandered the country. He had friends in that town so during the summer he always made his way there for a bit. He would do odd jobs to make money and in a couple weeks pack up and hitch his way someplace else. He didn’t hurt anything or anybody. I remember tons of people looking down on him, even calling him a drag on society. Never understood how simply choosing a different way of life makes people the “other than.”

Massive difference between the two types.

so if we want to be accurate there are 3 categories:
Hobo’s- comes from the depression era, Ho boy, basically kids to young adults who traveled the country looking for work, highest form of urchin
Tramps- step above a bum will work if forced to but would rather pan handle
Bums- won’t work, just beg, typically addicted to some sort of substance, 0 value added to society

 

[WCB]

This is in a Arkansas town population 24,000. The guy and his dog have set up camp for 4 days now a block from my office. This is at a major intersection in the middle of town. How do other town deal with these issues?
View attachment 999349

ever been to the Walmart in Bozeman MT...yeah other places deal with them and have for awhile

 

[AKBC]

Me 25 years ago (when I moved to ANC and was around visible homeless for the first time): I wont give you money, get a job. Why dont we arrest these people?

Me 20 years ago: Jesus said give to the poor. Here's a few bucks, none of my business what you do with it.

Me 15 years ago: I'll help them by donating new backpacks, warm clothes, socks etc. Also give them a few bucks because maybe it will help them get whatever they need (drugs/alcohol) quicker so they can get off the cold Anchorage streets.

Me 10 years ago: Torn. Aren't we enabling people to live a horrible dangerous life by giving them food, cash, shelter? Perhaps they would "bottom out" and accept help sooner if we didnt meet these basic needs.

Me 5 years ago: It isnt compassionate to let these souls live outside. Many are getting hit by cars, dying from OD and lack of care, filthy conditions. Maybe the most compassionate thing to do is "tough love", whatever that is.

Me today: This is a brutally difficult problem that many very smart, caring people are trying to solve but it keeps getting worse. I believe systems are there for people who are ready to change but many do not want to be "rescued" due to mental health/addiction issues. It feels like the only solution will have to be something forced, a return to mental health institutions would help some but you cant force people to be clean/sober. How do we as a society love and care for these folks without enabling the long-term lifestyle and without letting them trash our public spaces and stealing from the working class?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Me 25 years ago (when I moved to ANC and was around visible homeless for the first time): I wont give you money, get a job. Why dont we arrest these people?

Me 20 years ago: Jesus said give to the poor. Here's a few bucks, none of my business what you do with it.

Me 15 years ago: I'll help them by donating new backpacks, warm clothes, socks etc. Also give them a few bucks because maybe it will help them get whatever they need (drugs/alcohol) quicker so they can get off the cold Anchorage streets.

Me 10 years ago: Torn. Aren't we enabling people to live a horrible dangerous life by giving them food, cash, shelter? Perhaps they would "bottom out" and accept help sooner if we didnt meet these basic needs.

Me 5 years ago: It isnt compassionate to let these souls live outside. Many are getting hit by cars, dying from OD and lack of care, filthy conditions. Maybe the most compassionate thing to do is "tough love", whatever that is.

Me today: This is a brutally difficult problem that many very smart, caring people are trying to solve but it keeps getting worse. I believe systems are there for people who are ready to change but many do not want to be "rescued" due to mental health/addiction issues. It feels like the only solution will have to be something forced, a return to mental health institutions would help some but you cant force people to be clean/sober. How do we as a society love and care for these folks without enabling the long-term lifestyle and without letting them trash our public spaces and stealing from the working class?

Very well put and normal transition. I think there has to be a state intervention at some point, as much as I wouldn’t want it. The condition that many of these people live in both inside state/ city funded “housing” and on the streets is horrendous, not to mention the amount of societal decay that they contribute seems like it’s been lose/ lose and there is no good solution other than losing all your freedoms because you cannot live in society, and care for yourself

 

[yeti14]

In college I did a rotation through a psych hospital. Weeks after the semester ended, the hospital lost funding. They literally closed half the floors down and opened the doors. My classmates and I saw many of the patients wondering around downtown following the shutdown. A dereliction of mental health in this country is the root of a multitude of problems.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Homeless people are so annoying.

 

[Yoder]

This is a common GOP talking point and like any good lie it's based a little bit on truth. The lie they insert is where the words "some" and "abundant" go in the sentence. The vast majority of homeless folks have genuine issues that are really hard to solve and absolutely not "I see McDonald's is hiring, why don't you get a job?" territory. It's a very small minority that "fakes it" and even those folks have reasons.

To argue against it, you'd have to make a convincing case that somebody, somewhere, would genuinely prefer to stand on a street corner begging in the middle of winter while it's snowing, with nowhere to go that night, instead of standing in a warm building flipping burgers, one of the easiest jobs in the world and now qualifying for some housing benefits. It's just the most insane position in the world. If they could, they would. Something is preventing it, and it isn't a personal preference driving the decision.

Being homeless is not the easy way out of anything. It's one of the hardest ways to survive. Most folks who have never been homeless don't realize just how hard of an existence it is. There aren't enough shelters, and the ones that do are often not safe places. But what's worse is you can't even just say "well, it's not supposed to be easy, at least there IS a shelter" but even that isn't true for folks who have been homeless more than a few months, because nearly all shelters have stay limits. You're only allowed to stay for a few days, or in a few (rare) cases, 30-45 at most. Once you've moved around a few, you run out of places to go and you're back on the street with no options left. Since shelters don't provide mental or physical healthcare, if you have an underlying problem, all you do is delay the disaster a month or two.

Look, I'm not calling you (wnelson14) out specifically, so please don't take this personally. This was just the comment my reply fit best against. But all we're doing here today is repeating the same hand-wringing combined with inefficiency combined with heartlessness that has surrounded this issue since it's ever been discussed. It's not going to get fixed and not going to make anybody here happy so why rehash it in a hunting forum?

Honestly, the saddest part about it is that if you poke through this thread, the absolute worst comments are usually from the people whose signatures quote Bible verses. If Jesus was real, those are the folks he'd be most ashamed of.

God expects people to do what they can. "If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:10

When talking about people profiting, he wasn't talking about the people on the street. It's the people "helping". Helping the homeless is a billion-dollar business. I'll bet most politicians have some kind of non profit that's fleecing people and helping almost nobody. California is the perfect model. They love homeless people. They have spent billions and have more homeless than any other state. If they wanted to fix it, it would be fixed.

I do have compassion for these people. It actually pissed me off to see our government build huge facilities to house illegals to deport them while our citizens are crapping in the streets. It's amazing the things we have money for. Ukraine, Isreal, studies to see how monkeys react to cocaine all get funded but we have veterans hungry and cold. Many are all screwed up from fighting our ridiculous wars. The only war we should have funded in the last 80 years was WWII. The rest was for lies and profit. We are the richest country in the world. We shouldn't let people live like that. Imagine how many people they could house and help if they built some buildings the size of an Amazon warehouse. Divide the entire thing up into little dorms, have security, healthcare, mental health screening, drug treatment. I would like to see a few of the billions they piss away on complete nonsense in other countries go to something like that. There are so many that just need a little help to get back on their feet. I understand some milk the system and are never going to change but I think so many want better and so many others are out of their mind and need help. I have someone I'm close to that ended up homeless a few times. He has schizophrenia. When someone you love just goes missing and is completely insane, you get a little different perspective. He started having delusions and just walked off. They finally found him a few months later when he was arrested. Thank God he didn't die from drugs or get murdered on the street. He's doing great now, since he actually got proper medication and help with addiction. If he didn't have anyone, he would still be out there or he would be dead.

 

[Jimmy]

I helped(in a very small way, not bragging) a local mission build a new wing for homeless women with children. That will make your heart break. These are women that have decided its time to accept help. I think it's important that I help the people who WANT help. They can go there, get a bed off the street. Get help for their addiction that they WANT to quit.

I don't know what the state or country can do as a whole, but this is what I CAN do.

They even train some of the graduates how to roast coffee and you can buy it here.

Volente Coffee Roasters

volentecoffee.com

 

[Bluefish]

Imho the real issue is what do you do with people who don’t want to or can’t participate in society as we know it. It’s way more complicated than just having a place to sleep. From knowing people who have worked with the homeless and family that lost everything due to drugs, there are no easy solutions. It all costs money and no politician will do what is needed to fix the problem. To quote a former governor, that is an unelectable position.

 

[Harvey_NW]

God expects people to do what they can. "If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:10

When talking about people profiting, he wasn't talking about the people on the street. It's the people "helping". Helping the homeless is a billion-dollar business. I'll bet most politicians have some kind of non profit that's fleecing people and helping almost nobody. California is the perfect model. They love homeless people. They have spent billions and have more homeless than any other state. If they wanted to fix it, it would be fixed.

I do have compassion for these people. It actually pissed me off to see our government build huge facilities to house illegals to deport them while our citizens are crapping in the streets. It's amazing the things we have money for. Ukraine, Isreal, studies to see how monkeys react to cocaine all get funded but we have veterans hungry and cold. Many are all screwed up from fighting our ridiculous wars. The only war we should have funded in the last 80 years was WWII. The rest was for lies and profit. We are the richest country in the world. We shouldn't let people live like that. Imagine how many people they could house and help if they built some buildings the size of an Amazon warehouse. Divide the entire thing up into little dorms, have security, healthcare, mental health screening, drug treatment. I would like to see a few of the billions they piss away on complete nonsense in other countries go to something like that. There are so many that just need a little help to get back on their feet. I understand some milk the system and are never going to change but I think so many want better and so many others are out of their mind and need help. I have someone I'm close to that ended up homeless a few times. He has schizophrenia. When someone you love just goes missing and is completely insane, you get a little different perspective. He started having delusions and just walked off. They finally found him a few months later when he was arrested. Thank God he didn't die from drugs or get murdered on the street. He's doing great now, since he actually got proper medication and help with addiction. If he didn't have anyone, he would still be out there or he would be dead.

This is a very astute synopsis, well put.

 

[solarshooter]

Imho the real issue is what do you do with people who don’t want to or can’t participate in society as we know it. It’s way more complicated than just having a place to sleep. From knowing people who have worked with the homeless and family that lost everything due to drugs, there are no easy solutions. It all costs money and no politician will do what is needed to fix the problem. To quote a former governor, that is an unelectable position.

It's a matter of priority. We just increased our military budget from 1 trillion to 1.5 trillion with a tweet. We could spend 100k per year housing and feeding every homeless person and it would reduce our available defense budget to ONLY a measly 1.4 trillion.

But, we need to make sure our "allies" get free F-15s and batteries of missiles. And people get mad at the homeless for asking for "handouts". Unbelievable.

And this isn't even getting at the real meat, the hundreds of billions of evaded tax revenue, the manufactured-for-profit opioid epidemic, uncontrolled speculation in the housing market pricing most people under 60 out.

This is the reason for the tents on your street. We no longer live in a functioning country.

 

[Bluefish]

It's a matter of priority. We just increased our military budget from 1 trillion to 1.5 trillion with a tweet. We could spend 100k per year housing and feeding every homeless person and it would reduce our available defense budget to ONLY a measly 1.4 trillion.

But, we need to make sure our "allies" get free F-15s and batteries of missiles. And people get mad at the homeless for asking for "handouts". Unbelievable.

And this isn't even getting at the real meat, the hundreds of billions of evaded tax revenue, the manufactured-for-profit opioid epidemic, uncontrolled speculation in the housing market pricing most people under 60 out.

This is the reason for the tents on your street. We no longer live in a functioning country.

Note that I said they won’t do it, not that it couldn’t be done. It could be done and might even be cheaper in the long run. Unfortunately it doesn’t make good sound bites and would probably require that some people have freedoms limited. It’s not about fixing problems, but looking like you are while enriching yourself and your donors

 

[CRJR45]

You really think they don’t cost you anything? That’s foolish. Just as a few examples….Every time there’s a police call for service - that costs you and every other tax payer something. Every time there’s a medical call - that costs you and every other tax payer something. Every time one of them destroys or damages public property - that costs you and every other tax payer something. Virtually nothing is free. Every program or “aid” costs someone something.

Now, if they are just living their life off grid and not causing issues or damaging property, yeah, maybe they don’t cost you anything, however that’s highly unlikely.

Ok , I should have worded that better. Does it cost more to put them in prison than it does to just live out their miserable lives as they are now ?
Either way they’re a burden on society .
I think it’s too complex of a problem to just say lock em all up .
I think each should be treated on its own merits, some will respond to help , some won’t .
But let’s expend a little energy trying to help on an individual basis , then throw the ones that truly belong in jail , in jail .

 

[wapitibob]

House them on old cruise ships anchored off shore.

 

[WeiserBucks]

House them on old cruise ships anchored off shore in Peru.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Coveyleader]

I feel like one thing gets lost in conversations like this. There is a massive difference between two types of being homeless. There’s the ones that are doing drugs, shitting on the streets, etc and the ones that prefer a transient life style.

There was a homeless dude where I grew up. He just wandered the country. He had friends in that town so during the summer he always made his way there for a bit. He would do odd jobs to make money and in a couple weeks pack up and hitch his way someplace else. He didn’t hurt anything or anybody. I remember tons of people looking down on him, even calling him a drag on society. Never understood how simply choosing a different way of life makes people the “other than.”

Massive difference between the two types.

He’s not the type shitting all over sidewalks, living in a camp on private property. The one in a opioid stupor laying on the sidewalk next to 4 more in the same state of being. He was the “ 1 %”

 

[Naiche]

Put the drunks and druggies on a chain gang doing road maintenance with shovels. After they dry out and they are still crazy put them in an asylum on heavy drugs so they don’t bother anyone. Singapore style caning if you do any petty crimes like shoplifting building fires stealing out of peoples yards or vehicles.