History of the Wyoming Range Mule Deer (Article)

[Indian Summer]

I think Pennsylvania should implement pick Ur area to hunt no more state wide general licenses where residents can hunt where ever they want... And I think they need to start making residents bye small game stamp spring and fall turkey stamps.. I would like to see is every nonresident get a doe licenses since we pay double the price of a nonresident and we would be first inline for bonus tags to just because we are intitled to them to.. I also hope they leave the nonresidents tags and prices alone since when we do go home its generally only for a week and we all ready pay to much as it is.... What U think Indian Summer do I sound like a entitled nonresident who wants to tell Pennsylvania what they can do for me even though I havent lived there in 7 plus years.. What gives me the right to ask Pa for anything... What gives U the right to ask Wyoming for any thing? Thake Ur gen elk tag every year while U can before Wyoming makes point sharing illegal... And let the Wyoming residents worry about Wyoming............

My my are we angry? That’s the problem with the task force. They aren’t doing what they do because it’s best for wildlife management. It’s because they don’t like non residents.

I don’t mind any of your ideas about Pennsylvania. We have tons of hunters from surrounding states and many guys from Pa hunt their states. And guess what…. We all get along just fine. And for the record yes they do pay about double for a license. If I paid double the cost for my special general elk license it would be just over $100 instead of over $1300 and that doesn’t count the $200 worth of points it takes to even have a chance to buy one. Count your blessings!

Also a non resident hunter needs no other stamp to hunt deer, small game, or turkey in Pa. Same as a resident. It’s all included with your $100 license.

We do have to buy archery stamps and our antlerless licenses are unit specific. AND GUESS WHAT!!! You have as good of a chance of drawing a Pa elk license as I do! Yep. The task force… or Non Res Hunter Elimination Group as I call it would freak out if your drawing odds were equal to ours like it is here. Our bulls on that tag are bigger too. 400 inchers on a general license.

The grass is pretty green here for you to come hunt. And whoever you cross paths with will welcome you. We don’t have a task force trying to get rid of you or take advantage of you. We actually pay our own bills too so unlike western states we don’t really need you for that. We allow you to come enjoy the opportunity to hunt just like we do because it’s the right thing to do. AND your public comments are taken into consideration just like mine. We don’t make comments like stay the where you belong and let us decide everything.

I have family and friends in Montana. I lived there. I have really close friends in Wyoming. I hunt there to enjoy time with them. Your bitterness proves my point. For guys like you it’s not game management. It’s people management… with a bad attitude.

 

[mntnguide]

I’ll just say it… hunting obviously plays a role just like vehicle collisions. Eliminating or minimizing antlerless deer hunting, just like used with cow elk management, is the way to go. But so is the management of resident hunting. Think about it…. A non resident Hunter waits eight or nine years to be able to hunt region G. When he does finally draw a tag many are only able to hunt for one week. And regardless of how long they hunt since they waited that long many are specifically targeting only top in bucks. They are trophy hunters. For that reason many go home with unpunched tags. On the opposite end of the spectrum resident hunters get OTC licenses in that area. They are able to hunt the entire season. And since there’s always next year to bag the buck of a lifetime they often settle for lesser dear. Add all of that up and it’s pretty clear that resident hunters are by far the major factor when it comes to hunter harvest. Manage that and you will manage the herd.

Maybe it’s time for a Non Resident Task Force! After all we pay the bills too! I don’t think Gary Fralich is too thrilled with the goals of the Wy Task Force. Just saying…..

Completely disagree with your thoughts. The most dink bucks i see shot are by non residents in G and H... they spend years gathering points, and are damn sure not leaving the state without a punched tag one way or the other. Have seen it time and time again, they hunt hard for a day or 2, then after that they shoot some 2-3 year old that could have been something someday. Myself and every friend I have, will hunt all season and not punch a tag if we don't find a mature buck. I have elk tags that can fill the freezer, I'm not going to shoot a 160-170 class buck that has potential just to say i shot one that season. Majority of residents who actually hunt G and H do the same and don't care to shot young deer. But every year i see non residents blasting young deer, just cause they don't want to leave with an unpunched tag, whereas a resident just comes back and tries again next year.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Indian Summer]

I hunted elk down near Dick Creek a few years ago. There was a camp full of residents. Mostly family. Great people! We talked about deer hunting. They told me the opposite. They said big bucks were getting really hard to find so they were settling for whatever half decent one they saw.

I asked Gary Fralich the same question. Actually my question was have you thought about protecting the younger class bucks by using antler restrictions. He said it wasn’t necessary and wouldn’t help because the majority of bucks checked were 4 points or better. That doesn’t mean they were trophies. Not to you and me anyway. Speaking of you and me… we’re probably a lot alike. I’m never without an elk in the freezer. When it comes to deer I’m a horn hunter. And I’ve killed enough bucks to not even think about shooting one that doesn’t make my eyes pop out at the first glance. So going home empty handed is a very real possibility for me. At 57 years old it also means I’ll probably never hunt G again. Next time it’ll be H and I’ll be in my 60s.

I’m probably being unfair to non res guys who’ve bought points for sheep goats and moose but I couldn’t care less about the 90/10 split for those species. But I’m already hearing about what’s next. Going after my elk and deer opportunities. I also don’t care about that when it’s about limited quota units. If the guys only wanting to hunt there want to play that game they can go by your rules. Montana caps non res permits at 10% and has for years. Never bothered me. Why? Because I’m there for reasons other than bragging rights. I’m happy to roam the public land with a general license and work my ass off all day every day if I hope to kill a bull. I can’t see how fish and game can survive without the money for those tags. But I do know that there are Wyoming residents who would love to see us gone. Not the ones I hunt with but certainly ones on the task force.

 

[HOT ROD]

I hunted elk down near Dick Creek a few years ago. There was a camp full of residents. Mostly family. Great people! We talked about deer hunting. They told me the opposite. They said big bucks were getting really hard to find so they were settling for whatever half decent one they saw.

I asked Gary Fralich the same question. Actually my question was have you thought about protecting the younger class bucks by using antler restrictions. He said it wasn’t necessary and wouldn’t help because the majority of bucks checked were 4 points or better. That doesn’t mean they were trophies. Not to you and me anyway. Speaking of you and me… we’re probably a lot alike. I’m never without an elk in the freezer. When it comes to deer I’m a horn hunter. And I’ve killed enough bucks to not even think about shooting one that doesn’t make my eyes pop out at the first glance. So going home empty handed is a very real possibility for me. At 57 years old it also means I’ll probably never hunt G again. Next time it’ll be H and I’ll be in my 60s.

I’m probably being unfair to non res guys who’ve bought points for sheep goats and moose but I couldn’t care less about the 90/10 split for those species. But I’m already hearing about what’s next. Going after my elk and deer opportunities. I also don’t care about that when it’s about limited quota units. If the guys only wanting to hunt there want to play that game they can go by your rules. Montana caps non res permits at 10% and has for years. Never bothered me. Why? Because I’m there for reasons other than bragging rights. I’m happy to roam the public land with a general license and work my ass off all day every day if I hope to kill a bull. I can’t see how fish and game can survive without the money for those tags. But I do know that there are Wyoming residents who would love to see us gone. Not the ones I hunt with but certainly ones on th

Maybe U missed the point what gives U the right to say how WG&F manages there wildlife and how they should distribute there tags to the residents of Wyoming since U are a Pennsylvania resident.. Residents of Wyoming dont want gen regions G & H limited quota.

 

[Indian Summer]

Maybe U missed the point what gives U the right to say how WG&F manages there wildlife and how they should distribute there tags to the residents of Wyoming since U are a Pennsylvania resident.. Residents of Wyoming dont want gen regions G & H limited quota.

“To say how” is how you put it. Fish and Game and even your task force calls it public comments. Input. Furthermore your task force hasn’t even finished their work with the big three and there are already talks of dividing general elk licenses into regional ones. Maybe you missed my point: You’re not interested in managing big game by science or the recommendation of Fish and Game biologists. Your tone and attitude says it all. You just want non resident hunters to shut up and go home. Your management ideas are based on selfishness. I bet you make a great neighbor.

Every year I have friends who are residents who draw elk and deer licenses that I’d have a fraction of a percent of odds to draw with max points. They can hunt region G for deer every year and of course buy a dirt cheap elk tag over the counter. And rightly so! I’m happy for them. They deserve it. But they don’t go around full of hate wanting to eliminate my chances of hunting elk. The system is working. It’s getting harder to draw a general license because of the increase in elk hunting in general. But the number of available licenses remains the same and always will so that has no affect on your hunting. When your ideas for change aim to eliminate chances of non residents hunting elk in Wyoming yep… you’re going to hear my opinions. And rightly so because we pay half of your bills sir!

 

[Indian Summer]

And so maybe that answers your question. You know how kids get mad at their parents and the adults say “As long as you live under my roof you go by my rules. When you pay the bills you can make the rules” Well guess what.. non resident hunters do pay the bills. And as long as the landlord keeps cashing the checks he’s going to hear from the people writing them once in awhile.

Like I said I don’t care about the big three. The fact is there’s not enough of that species to go around so I do understand your point to a degree. But I also understand the frustration of people who’ve been paying for points since they were available only to find out they’re worthless. A compromise is always the best solution. I don’t get the feeling that the Wyoming task force is interested in compromising.

 

[stevevan]

And so maybe that answers your question. You know how kids get mad at their parents and the adults say “As long as you live under my roof you go by my rules. When you pay the bills you can make the rules” Well guess what.. non resident hunters do pay the bills. And as long as the landlord keeps cashing the checks he’s going to hear from the people writing them once in awhile.

Like I said I don’t care about the big three. The fact is there’s not enough of that species to go around so I do understand your point to a degree. But I also understand the frustration of people who’ve been paying for points since they were available only to find out they’re worthless. A compromise is always the best solution. I don’t get the feeling that the Wyoming task force is interested in compromising.

Guess I was lucky as I lived in Star Valley from 1980-2002 during what you describe as the heyday of mule deer hunting. I too passed a good number of bucks looking for that special one. I did find a few and they have a special place in my trophy room. I could afford to be selective as I had the whole season to hunt and knew that next year I could go to the 7-11 and get a deer tag over the counter. We residents had a big advantage, Sooo, with that in mind I have to come to the defense of the Non-residents. They were usually only to hunt a short time due to vacations, high cost invested to travel, and no guaranty when they might get another license. Perhaps a bigger factor was trophy identification. We residents in Wyoming are in Mule Deer country 24/7, 365 days a year. We can identify a mature buck from a 2-3 year old., but I can tell you for sure to a non-resident looking at a 170 class buck that is a big boy compared to the 120 White tail he normally shot on his home ground. I can assure you that most of those bucks had a trip to the Taxidermist. There isn't a taxidermist in the west that could survive if folks just brought them 190+ heads. If you really wanted G & H to be a "Trophy" units put both as limited quota (draw for both residents and non-residents a like). Funny I never met "Lockwood" while I was out there. I knew Dave Lockman very well. He was the guru of the Wyoming Range herd. Gary Fralick replaced him as the Biologist when Lockman took another assignment, I knew and worked closely with the Game Wardens (mostly in G) Duane Hyde and Neil Hymas. I was an employee of a Federal land management agency stationed in Afton during that period but never met a Wyoming G&F biologist with the name Lockwood. Wish I had.

 

[HOT ROD]

I’ll just say it… hunting obviously plays a role just like vehicle collisions. Eliminating or minimizing antlerless deer hunting, just like used with cow elk management, is the way to go. But so is the management of resident hunting. Think about it…. A non resident Hunter waits eight or nine years to be able to hunt region G. When he does finally draw a tag many are only able to hunt for one week. And regardless of how long they hunt since they waited that long many are specifically targeting only top in bucks. They are trophy hunters. For that reason many go home with unpunched tags. On the opposite end of the spectrum resident hunters get OTC licenses in that area. They are able to hunt the entire season. And since there’s always next year to bag the buck of a lifetime they often settle for lesser dear. Add all of that up and it’s pretty clear that resident hunters are by far the major factor when it comes to hunter harvest. Manage that and you will manage the herd.

Maybe it’s time for a Non Resident Task Force! After all we pay the bills too! I don’t think Gary Fralich is too thrilled with the goals of the Wy Task Force. Just saying…..

Please read this very closely Indian Summer ^^^^^^^ Let me say it again what right do U have to tell WG&F how to manage the big game let alone tell any resident or nonresident what they can and can not shoot with there tag... And even worse U want to do away with resident general tags in area G & H how intitled is that? I have all my family witch still live in Pa and a lot of friends in Pa who all hunt in Wyoming and Colorado and I can guarantee U this there not a one of them that feel intitled enough to be asking WG&F or CP&W how to manage there resident tags...

 

[Indian Summer]

I never said I wanted to do away with anything Hot Head. I said if you want to manage the game looking at non resident hunting isn’t the thing to do. If 400 NR hunters have a 40% success rate that’s only 160 deer. If 4900 residents have a 30% rate that’s 1470 deer. Controlling yourselves might piss you off but if you cared about the animals you might have to swallow that bitter medicine.

Eliminating me isn’t going to help anything other than maybe how well you sleep at night. And to answer your question for the 2nd or 3rd time… we pay your bills. I don’t know how old you are but there’s a chance I’ve been paying them before you were old enough to hunt. Maybe not but regardless THAT is what gives me the right to give my input… which by the way, your fish and game department asked for. Next question?

 

[Wyoguy51]

I never said I wanted to do away with anything Hot Head. I said if you want to manage the game looking at non resident hunting isn’t the thing to do. If 400 NR hunters have a 40% success rate that’s only 160 deer. If 4900 residents have a 30% rate that’s 1470 deer. Controlling yourselves might piss you off but if you cared about the animals you might have to swallow that bitter medicine.

Eliminating me isn’t going to help anything other than maybe how well you sleep at night. And to answer your question for the 2nd or 3rd time… we pay your bills. I don’t know how old you are but there’s a chance I’ve been paying them before you were old enough to hunt. Maybe not but regardless THAT is what gives me the right to give my input… which by the way, your fish and game department asked for. Next question?

I know this thread is over a year old, but I'm a FNG and don't care. How about moving to Wyoming? Your wife will absolutely love it here! We have warm beautiful winters and long (2-3 months at least!) summers. Hell, it's 46 degrees here right now (June 14, 2023). We're supposed to get up to a scorching 66 today.

You don't pay our bills. Truth be known, Wyoming doesn't even really need the NR cash. We'll figure it out. I (and many others) will gladly pay more for the privilege of hunting here. That's why we live here. We put up with 6-7 months of winter. We put up with 2-3 month summers. We put up with constant wind. We love it here. We love the hunting. We love the fishing. We love the people, and we love the lifestyle. We like most NR. There are some that feel entitled to all this because they spend money on licenses here sometimes. They feel that Wyoming needs their money to survive. They like to tell us how we should do things.

We pretty much like all the rest of them.

 

[Indian Summer]

I know this thread is over a year old, but I'm a FNG and don't care. How about moving to Wyoming? Your wife will absolutely love it here! We have warm beautiful winters and long (2-3 months at least!) summers. Hell, it's 46 degrees here right now (June 14, 2023). We're supposed to get up to a scorching 66 today.

You don't pay our bills. Truth be known, Wyoming doesn't even really need the NR cash. We'll figure it out. I (and many others) will gladly pay more for the privilege of hunting here. That's why we live here. We put up with 6-7 months of winter. We put up with 2-3 month summers. We put up with constant wind. We love it here. We love the hunting. We love the fishing. We love the people, and we love the lifestyle. We like most NR. There are some that feel entitled to all this because they spend money on licenses here sometimes. They feel that Wyoming needs their money to survive. They like to tell us how we should do things.

We pretty much like all the rest of them.

Actually Skippy we FO PAY YOUR BILLS. You could never afford to support Wyoming Fish and Game. It was 45 in Pa this morning. I’ve spent many moons in Wyoming and Montana. Cold is better than heat. My wife loves the big mountains too. And she can hike and ride. You sound mad because you live there. Lol

To get to the point… residents don’t care about region G. They can hunt there every year. So they aren’t holding off for a once in a lifetime buck. There’s always next year. So they do have a major impact on management of the deer there.

“We’ll figure it out” No… you won’t. It’s simple math. Care to pay 2 grand for your elk tag?

 

[Wyoguy51]

Not mad because I live here. I love Wyoming. I just get tired of the know-it-all nonresident that always wants to tell us how to manage our big game. YOU want to limit MY hunting so that YOUR hunting will be better when YOU finally draw a tag. TRUTH