High volume strength training (10x10, 5x10, GVT, etc)- anyone have experience with it?

[JohnDough]

I had never heard of high volume strength training before until recently and was wondering if anyone has given it a go.

It sounds like most agree that's it should be a relatively short term training—6-8 weeks and only 2-4 times a week. 50-60% of your 1RM with sets of 10 reps; some argue 5x10, others 10x10.

Any experience bad or good?

This is pretty close to 180° from the 5/3/1 format I've been using for quite awhile, so curious

I've done 5/3/1 as well as 3x3 and 4x4 and 3x10. I gained good strength from all of them, but when you do 3x3 or 4x4, you note that your endurance suffers even while the maxes go up. I do strength training + crossfit for this reason, because I want to be well rounded. That said, we were doing 6x6 @ 75% 1RM for back squats the other week, and I felt I was THIS close to my form being off. Risk/Reward is not there for me for that scheme.

 

[JohnDough]

I've been body building for over 15yrs now. I've tried it all. For years I lifted extremely heavy, like people staring at you heavy. It's fun and I love it. As I've gotten a bit older, I've settled into a routine that works for me with a much busier schedule than I used to have.

I workout 3 to 4x per week. I always start with a compound movement. This is where you get the most bang for the buck. Overhead barbell press, squat, deadlift, bench... I'll still work decently heavy here for 20 to 30 reps.

After that I move to high volume accessory stuff to get a ridiculous pump and shuttle nutrients to the muscles. I'll give you an example here for a chest day:

Benchpress:
warmup 135x 15
Stretch
225 x 10
275 x 10
315 to failure

Incline DB Press / Cable Fly superset
80 x 10 x 4 or failure - incline
40 x 12 x 4 cable fly
Stretch between each set by holding your arm out against something and twisting your body

Unweighted dips
1x15
2 additional sets to failure

I'll typically finish up with sets of 20 low cable flys at an extreme light weight pausing to squeeze on every rep just to really top off the pump.

This isn't the method on how I got to where I'm at but it's been the best way I've found to stay injury free and maintain a physique.

There is something about high volume work that beneficial for ME. Like everything else in bodybuilding, you'll have to dedicate some time to it and see how it works for you and your body.

That's still some pretty serious weight. I am guessing just chicken and broccoli?

 

[SloppyJ]

That's still some pretty serious weight. I am guessing just chicken and broccoli?

And creatine

 

[JohnDough]

And creatine

Serious note though, creatine does zero for me. I tried 5g per day over a 4mo time frame, and noted zero strength gains on bench, or squat. Nor did I track any weight or size gain.

 

[Poser]

Serious note though, creatine does zero for me. I tried 5g per day over a 4mo time frame, and noted zero strength gains on bench, or squat. Nor did I track any weight or size gain.

A small portion of the population don't respond to creatine.

 

[JohnDough]

A small portion of the population don't respond to creatine.

Looks like that's me. I mean, I tracked it with lifts, tape measure, calories, body weight, there was zero change of any nature except slight strength and weight loss due to calorie deficit. It mirrored my previous unsupplemented response to the same deficit.

 

[Poser]

Looks like that's me. I mean, I tracked it with lifts, tape measure, calories, body weight, there was zero change of any nature except slight strength and weight loss due to calorie deficit. It mirrored my previous unsupplemented response to the same deficit.

Have you tried it in a caloric surplus? Because improving strength in a deficit is extremely difficult.
Also, were you on a program that was setup for adding incremental amounts of weight to the bar?

Creatine is not magic and probably won't suddenly add some untold amount of weight to, say, one's bench press. The improvement in ATP will basically allow you to complete that 5th heavy rep of your last set where you otherwise would fail. Over time, that will invariably get more total weight on the bar assuming other factors such as programming and diet are in order, though testing 1 rep maxes is often an imperfect measurement for general population trainees. 1 rep maxes have a strong neurological component that must be ramped up to. 3 and 5 rep maxes are going to provide much more useful feedback for people who are not (competitive) powerlifters.

May well be the fact that your body doesn't respond to creatine -This is about 20% of the population. But, from your description, I'm unsure if I would rule it out quote yet either.

More and more doctors are recommending creatine for people who don't even lift just for the cognitive benefits.

 

[JohnDough]

Have you tried it in a caloric surplus? Because improving strength in a deficit is extremely difficult.
Also, were you on a program that was setup for adding incremental amounts of weight to the bar?

Creatine is not magic and probably won't suddenly add some untold amount of weight to, say, one's bench press. The improvement in ATP will basically allow you to complete that 5th heavy rep of your last set where you otherwise would fail. Over time, that will invariably get more total weight on the bar assuming other factors such as programming and diet are in order, though testing 1 rep maxes is often an imperfect measurement for general population trainees. 1 rep maxes have a strong neurological component that must be ramped up to. 3 and 5 rep maxes are going to provide much more useful feedback for people who are not (competitive) powerlifters.

May well be the fact that your body doesn't respond to creatine -This is about 20% of the population. But, from your description, I'm unsure if I would rule it out quote yet either.

More and more doctors are recommending creatine for people who don't even lift just for the cognitive benefits.

I was cutting when taking it, and not just measuring 1RM but 3 and 5 and 10RM, as well. I also did not expect a lot, but my strength loss change was identical to other cuts using the same macros, so I can't even argue that I lost strength less than I would have without it.

I am not saying you're wrong, just that so far I am not convinced.

Do the cognitive benefits occur even for people who do not physically respond, I wonder?

Also, some people do see some renal issues even at 5g and hydrating correctly, so there is also a tiny bit of risk in it.