High country or Low Country for Big Bucks?

[Bar]

Not sure where you live, but high altitude here means above timberline. They certainly don't have to deal with thick brush.

 

[Bubblehide]

Not sure where you live, but high altitude here means above timberline. They certainly don't have to deal with thick brush.

Are you sure of that. If they live in high altitude they certainly don't winter there, right?

 

[Bar]

Of course not, but they migrate at night and are down in one day. Mostly they stick to open areas and trails. Hardly enough to affect antler growth.

 

[Bubblehide]

Of course not, but they migrate at night and are down in one day. Mostly they stick to open areas and trails. Hardly enough to affect antler growth.

Perhaps when you attempted to read what I wrote, you missed this part: "There are of course high altitude areas in which deer do not need to migrate through thick country"

 

[Bar]

Perhaps when you attempted to read what I wrote, you missed this part: "There are of course high altitude areas in which deer do not need to migrate through thick country"

What difference would it make if they did? It's only once a year, and it's done when the antlers are at full growth. Even the velvet is long gone.

Big antlers are a matter of good nutrition. That's at high altitude through the summer.

 

[tttoadman]

This was so easy for me because I have only gotten one Buck I would consider really nice...and he was high up.

 

[Bubblehide]

I hate to point it out to you on a public forum, but it's actually twice a year, as it is bi-directional; and during that spring migration those antlers are not at full growth. Are you just yanking my chain, because it sounds like you haven't really thought this through?

 

[Bar]

I hate to point it out to you on a public forum, but it's actually twice a year, as it is bi-directional; and during that spring migration those antlers are not at full growth. Are you just yanking my chain, because it sounds like you haven't really thought this through?

Brush hasn't really grown in when they migrate in the spring. Besides as I already said, they migtrate at night. They take the easiest route possible. They don't bust through the brush. They aren't worried about being seen at night, so using easy routes is normal.

I have to wonder if you've thought this through? Do you really think a trip up and down the mountain once a year will affect their antler growth? Are you getting this from years of observation, or did you read it somewhere?

 

[robby denning]

Bubblehide and Bar, you both make good points.

I've actually read something, by what memory tells me was a credible source, years ago supporting some of what Bubblehide said. I just can't remember if it was biologist, Boone & Crockett, Dr. V. Geist, or what.

It wasn't really related to migration, but pointed out "the fact" (not sure if it is or not) that narrower bucks tend to come from Intermountain West and Northern Rockies which receive more rainfall and grow more cover, where wider bucks come from the Southwest, Southern Rockies, and deserts which I guess you could argue are more open (I know some of you NV guys who hunt the P-J would disagree).

We can all point to cases where super wide bucks have come from high country (Popeye for one) and low country like a few of the Antelope Island bucks as of late.

Probably only Boone & Crockett would have the data to support either argument.

As far as updating Rizzy's poll, I've taken three "big" bucks since since then and guided one hunter to one

One was a high country buck, aged at 8years old but only 24" spread,

One a mid-elevation buck that probably came from the high country at 28" wide (by Rizzy's rule, he wouldn't qualify for this poll as he was a November migrating buck) and not yet aged.

The other two were resident low country bucks:

A 25" 180 buck aged at 4 yrs

The other a 29.5 wide 5x8 big buck (Ryan Avery's buck from last fall), not yet aged.

 

[Bubblehide]

Bar, it would be nice if you took what I say in it's context, instead of attempting to apply it in all situations. Seriously, that approach is below you, well below you.

Brush doesn't disintegrate, fall off, un-grow... I clearly stated that "in areas I hunt", although I do believe that the information I provided can be generalized to many other areas, as I've seen this in several states, or better said, parts of several states. And yes, it's been from decades of observation. Of course deer take the easy route in their migration, I never said they didn't. I said that in their daily survival, and in their migration, if they must migrate through or summer in thick brush areas (granted I did a little clarifying there). As with most things, one size does not fit all. Like hunting, one approach will not work in every situation. Thread (a poll) asked a question. I simply provided the knowledge I have from decades of hunting.

 

[Bubblehide]

I'll try to make what I have said a bit more relevant with an example from the general area I hunt in Ca, although I have seen this same thing in other states. In one of the areas I hunt In the California Sierra Nevada, the subspecies of mule deer is know to not have the largest antlers. In fact, when viewing them in their staging and winter range, the average mature, large antlered buck, has a rack between 22 and 24 inches wide. There are of course exceptions, but those exceptions come from a limited area within their respective zones, as what I am saying applies to a few zones that share borders. The vast majority of deer summer in the western 1/2 of the zone. They migrate from west to east (winter migration) and drop down into the eastern slope. Some making it to the desert floor. The western 1/2 of the zone has some pretty thick vegetation, and those bucks that summer in this thick stuff (the vast majority of bucks), the mature ones, have those typical racks I mentioned, 22 to 24 inch width. The mature bucks that summer from approximately the crest and east, generally have wider racks, from 24 inches and beyond. The country from just barely west of the crest, and going east is mostly high desert type country. In the spring there are plenty of forbs for them to eat, but most years those are only there in the spring. My point here is not to say that this information applies everywhere. But rather in that some zones, the location one hunts within a given zone/unit may be important in harvesting trophy bucks.

 

[Bar]

I can only talk about what i've observed in my area. The big bucks in my area that live in the high country stay above timberline. They eat and bed down there. I would think they have the most freedom to grow wide antlers. Some 30" bucks are taken now and then.

At lower altitudes the bucks need to hide out during the day for survival. They do that in thick timber with lots of blowdown. You would think that wouldn't be ideal for a wide buck.

We even have a new tag in this area that is for bucks above timberline only. A very hard tag to get. I assume it's hard to get, because that's where the big deer are.

Anyway, it's not that important to me. I was just talking about what i've observed. My preferance is elk and bear hunting.

Peace.

 

[GrizMountain]

REVIVE!

This is a great poll folks. Thank you!

I wasn't raised chasing mountain mulies so I can't way in on this without bias. However I must add that for someone who has just been infected with the mule bug, I find this conversation of elevational cohorts fascinating!!!
Trying to dissect my own HD right now and although the high mountain basins with passes and pinch points looks fantastic; My heart bleeds for all of the wonderful country lower down I feel I am skipping over... I know of mulies harvested at about every elevation, but I know its not all mule deer habitat out there.

Keep up the good work everyone.

 

[Jim Carr]

one thing you have to account for is the fact that more controlled hunts take place in lower country. Also restricted private land also usually is lower country.So that will skew the numbers a bit in favor of the lower country. For the most part most of the bucks and biggest bucks will be in the best greenest habitat during summer and early fall .I would say that when you look at a unit and it has both good habitats up high(true alpine not all high country is good habitat some of it sucks ) and down low more bucks will be tend to be up high. A couple examples There are two controlled units in close proximity to each other one has a true high country and then prime mid range and low country.The adjacent unit has the same type midrange and low and the Bucks are equally dispersed.In the country with the high country there are bucks down low but it has and extreme density of bucks up in the available high country including the big ones.This only applies to opening morning as everybody knows this and hits it hard in this spot. Take southeast Idaho for instance doesn't have much true high-country and has good habitat threw out.In a place like this with lots of access you would be better off finding the least accessible to find bigger bucks. Go across the border into Wyoming region G and H you have good lower country that gets less pressure but you will find 90 % of the bucks in the higher country. Take Gunnison basin which has good low country similar to other units that are loaded with deer in the same type country, But how many bucks spend there summers and early falls down low compared to the hi country my guess is no comparison until snow drives them out So my vote excluding draw hunts is the high country provided there is high country and it has limited access.

Sorry about the rambling Jim