High Ballistics Coefficients Means Squat on Elk?

[Formidilosus]

I've no idea how reputable this is, but it's a good read even if it does seem to contradict some of the info above. Id skip the history lesson and start at "How Does a Bullet Kill" and read at least through "Bullet Diameter".

Effective Game Killing

Effective game killing- How bullets kill and where to aim to ensure a fast clean kill.

www.ballisticstudies.com

Much better- read medically and factually correct- would be to google “Martin Fackler wound ballistics”. The same for “DR Gary K. Roberts wound ballistics”.

 

[hobbes]

Much better- read medically and factually correct- would be to google “Martin Fackler wound ballistics”. The same for “DR Gary K. Roberts wound ballistics”.

I'll check those out. Thanks

 

[5MilesBack]

Since I don't really need the vitals and am looking for meat, so what if the bullet grenades. This increases the wounds to the animal and they seem to die quicker.

Oh, there's no doubt that those types of bullets will kill quickly by grenading. But I shot a buck a few years ago with a 168gr Berger at 375 yards and that bullet grenaded everywhere, and right into the meat. Sure, he went down quickly but I prefer to not have lead scattered in my burger.

 

[rayporter]

1983 -first hunt -lots of snow and still snowing

riding up the mountain my mule stopped. i looked where she looked and spied a spike.
turned to my pard and says "'you want this one"
he piles off and shoots it. a Hornady bullet grenaded on the skin. a sliver hit the spine allowing a head shot.

so a couple hours later i shoot one through the heart and then the lungs and it turns to run so i put one up the tail pipe. the one up the pipe is one of the bullets in the picture that was found in the heart. lessons learned in one hunt on what works and what dont.

 

[TooLucky406]

Here's a monkey wrench to the conversation. Hand load Hornady SST 165gr for .30-06. One shot @230yd, bull took half a step and pile up this season. I guess hit where you aim and any game will fall! Don't over think it.

 

[rkcdvm]

Partitions, eld-x . I killed my bull today with hand loaded nosler accubond . Any of the full copper bullets (Barnes, Berger, nosler makes one too)
SST I would say no. I hunt deer with them and the explode like a grenade . I think on the thick elk hide it may not do well. Great for deer though

 

[trophyhill]

Partitions, eld-x . I killed my bull today with hand loaded nosler accubond . Any of the full copper bullets (Barnes, Berger, nosler makes one too)
SST I would say no. I hunt deer with them and the explode like a grenade . I think on the thick elk hide it may not do well. Great for deer though

Pics of bulls welcome

 

[Aubs8]

I am no expert. I have used Factory 180 grain Core Lokts in .300 Win Mag on 3 bulls so far...even managed to take 2 Rams, a Griz and Mtn. Goat with what my AK guide called a "musket ball." My gun shoots them well.

My daughter killed her bull with 140 gr Core Lokt in 7mm-08 at 330 yds....

Sometimes we analyze things too much...

Take care.
Mike

 

[trophyhill]

I've always used hand-loaded 175gr Partitions and 175gr Swift A-frames on elk, out of my 7mags. I prefer the A-frames........they don't shed as much weight as the Partitions do, but they both work.

After a bunch of homework on all kinds of different ammo mentioned in this thread, and ammo not mentioned in this thread, it appears there is a lot of what I will call “designer” ammo out there with a need for mucho advertising campaigns to try and convince hunters that they have the next best thing out there. And it is second best for most hunting situations according to what I’ve been reading.

The amount of failures due to bullets coming apart and only wounding is astounding to me. Yet many ignore those facts. Probably because they are using these bullets and don’t want to admit that some of these bullets are inferior, or have drank the purple drank and love the flavor of the koolaid and haven’t had the negative experiences “yet”.

There is one bullet out there that doesn’t advertise like these specialized bullets feel a need for. Probably because they’ve been getting the job done for the last 75 years or so. When they do become available gain, I know what I will be buying and hunting with when I’m not bowhunting. I don’t want a specialized designer bullet. I want a meat and potato’s blue collar bullet that will get the job done with the most reliability.

I choose this bullet not based on my experience, or the opinions on this thread, but because of my own homework on what has worked for decades and yet to be copied or topped. The Nosler Partition will be my ammo of choice in the future when it becomes available. For my upcoming hunts it will be either the Trophy Bonded or the Barnes. My TB are arriving today so I will shoot a few this weekend and make that determination based on grouping efforts.

 

[5MilesBack]

The A-frames are like a Partition on steroids. I also have some 160gr Failsafes that are equal to the A-frames in regards to penetration. They'll both break down a shoulder and just keep on going......through the vitals and beyond.

 

[txhunter581]

Pretty interesting read. What it conveys is that we are still searching for that “magic bullet” that works in ALL situations.

Yes, the SST or similar soft design bullet would prob be an ideal bullet IF we double lunged every animal without hitting a bone. But take that same bullet and try to shoot thru a shoulder and you can have a problem.

I use Remington core-lokts on pretty much all game I hunt in Texas. Cheap, easy to obtain (usually) and does the job on medium deer/ hogs. But I want “something more” when I go after elk. The partition is the closest bullet to being the best of both worlds I have found for large heavy game.

There is no one right answer.

 

[WCB]

BCs = zero importance on terminal ballistics. Get concerned about them one you start consistently shooting 600+ yards...and even then how well your gun shoots the individual projectile is far more important.

I personally have put 100s of 160gr Trophy Bonded Tips through my 7rem. Wife shoots the 140s in a 7mm08. Also use them in 3 other calibers. IMO best bullet on the market. You will not be disappointed in them.

 

[AaronMColeman]

BCs = zero importance on terminal ballistics. Get concerned about them one you start consistently shooting 600+ yards...and even then how well your gun shoots the individual projectile is far more important.

I personally have but 100s of 160gr Trophy Bonded Tips through my 7rem. Wife shoots the 140s in a 7mm08. Also use them in 3 other calibers. IMO best bullet on the market. You will not be disappointed in them.

A 1MOA shot at 600y is just as deadly as a 1.5MOA (assuming you aren't aiming WAY off to begin with). High BC is nice all things being equal. But I'd rather shoot a low BC bullet that my rifle shoots well, and that I shoot well, and that has appropriate expansion etc. What my rifle shoots well (with me pulling the trigger) will result in much tighter groups than a bullet with high BC that just doesn't work in my rifle.

It's so many factors that anyone who says "bigger is better" or "BC doesn't even matter", or "BC is the most important factor"...or anyone who narrows it down to one factor, is probably someone you can ignore.

I choose bullets based on expansion in the ranges I plan to shoot, what my rifle shoots well, and most importantly now days, what is available

All this talk has me wanting to go back to the tried and true Nosler Partitian!

 

[trophyhill]

The A-frames are like a Partition on steroids. I also have some 160gr Failsafes that are equal to the A-frames in regards to penetration. They'll both break down a shoulder and just keep on going......through the vitals and beyond.

i will definitely consider those as well.

 

[Zane503]

I shoot hornady eld-x out of my 280 remington, basically a 30-06 necked down to 7mm. They seem to work well, very accurate for a factory load. I had one grenade on a large cow elk, double lung at 380 yards. I wasnt happy about it grenading but every animal ive shot with that round has been dead within seconds.

 

[woods89]

I'm no expert, but my elk hunting area is always windy. I shoot high BC bullets because I figure my wind calls need all the help I can get. Not a dealbreaker, though.....

 

[williaada]

Having used a wide variety of bullets on different animals over the years. I narrowed my bullet selection choice down to the following:
1. What bullets seem to come up over and over again as performing as expected.

In my own experience I have had the best experiences with nosler AB and partitions, Federal Trophy Grade, Barnes TTSX, and the cup and core bullets for deer multiple manufacturers.

2. The last and to me most important part is , what bullet can I shoot out of the rifle, and get the accuracy I want consistently?

Hope this helps.

 

[Artanis95]

Any dedicated hunting bullet that you can put where it needs to go, that to me (and I may have missed something I've been awake way to long) is the real problem you're facing limited quantity of munitions to burn on range time to find one that's producing the kind of consistency you're looking for.

Personally I hand load partitions for the bigger boned animals A frames would be my second choice, I believe it's been mentioned before here but within reasonable ranges many elk and not to mention bison have been dropped in their tracks with good ol' fashion lead poured bullets if that's what You have to work with then that's what you got to work with in that case I'd go as heavy as I could in the bullet weight to help retain as much mass as possible for as long as possible after it's hit the target.

But there's really no perfect answer here stuff happens pretty quick especially when you're past point blank range a horse fly could bite it in the butt and you have a gut shot animal it could step in a hole get spooked by a quail or turn and you wind up low high or in a shoulder and no one bullet will cover all that with perfect results.As a side note if you can shoot really well and have good consistency a walnut to the noggin going fast enough would drop an elk where it stands with no meat spoilage and I'm sure the bc on those is pretty terrible.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

@Formidilosus I gather that you're an advocate for smaller caliber match bullets travelling at high velocity. And you've got somewhat of a following here. I don't doubt your experiences or recommendations, but what if a guy wants to avoid lead in his game? Do you have any recommendation on monometal bullets that will still provide the damage you seek?

Asking this as someone who's never had any issues with 168 gr .30 cal TTSX's starting at 3k fps, but I've also experienced the destructive nature of SST's on mule deer. Bang-flops were more common with the lighter bullet.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus I gather that you're an advocate for smaller caliber match bullets travelling at high velocity. And you've got somewhat of a following here. I don't doubt your experiences or recommendations, but what if a guy wants to avoid lead in his game? Do you have any recommendation on monometal bullets that will still provide the damage you seek?

Asking this as someone who's never had any issues with 168 gr .30 cal TTSX's starting at 3k fps, but I've also experienced the destructive nature of SST's on mule deer. Bang-flops were more common with the lighter bullet.

I’m an advocate for correct information and knowledge. Terminal ballistics isn’t a guess anymore. What certain projectiles allow one to do is decrease recoil, increase practice, and in turn increase hit rates while having acceptable terminal performance.

There are no commercially available lead free projectiles that produce wounding comparable to what lead projectiles can. Some are better than others, with copper fragmenting bullets (ex. CE) being the top right now in LF.
However, lead in meat is a subject that has a lot of misinformation and is not presented in a non biased manner. I have enough experience and work with the lead bullet issue that I am completely comfortable with the heath risks or lack thereof in killing with lead cored bullets.
They fly better, they kill better, and are significantly less expensive.