Here we ago again... .223 bullet selection given following parameters.

[Steve300xcw]

. But I’m wondering if at 150 yards and closer, a regular 55gr soft point that seems to be available from literally dozens of manufacturers would also work just fine.

They will be fine

 

[RockAndSage]

The one thing I find interesting on this forum is the group think and the parroting. And how if this bullet works, all these others dont. Rather interesting.

Definitely a thing on gun forums, and with gun guys in general - "this to the exclusion of all the other thats". As though a cap and ball revolver or M1 Garand are rendered useless by more modern guns. It's much more useful to discuss things in terms of capabilities and limitations.

 

[FLS]

My kiddo shot his first doe last year at 95 yards with this ammo and the exact same gun.
Gun liked the ammo, the deer not so much.View attachment 1059123

I killed a metric shit ton of deer with 64 grain power points out of a 700 BDL Varmint long before Rokslide Specials or TMKs were a thing. They’re not sexy, but they work and were available.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Definitely a thing on gun forums, and with gun guys in general - "this to the exclusion of all the other thats". As though a cap and ball revolver or M1 Garand are rendered useless by more modern guns. It's much more useful to discuss things in terms of capabilities and limitations.

My favorite is when the talk starts of how much more lethal a 8 twist barrel is. If you are cutting hairs that fine, you're doin it wrong

 

[RockAndSage]

My favorite is when the talk starts of how much more lethal a 8 twist barrel is. If you are cutting hairs that fine, you're doin it wrong

*laughs in 22-250*

 

[Steve300xcw]

Thats overkill

 

[Pharmseller]

Definitely a thing on gun forums, and with gun guys in general - "this to the exclusion of all the other thats". As though a cap and ball revolver or M1 Garand are rendered useless by more modern guns. It's much more useful to discuss things in terms of capabilities and limitations.

Except that, in this scenario, no one is saying his other options won’t work.

They’re simply saying that, given the sheer volume of data specific to his question, perhaps his third choice might want to shift up a couple of spots.

That’s all. I’m not a smart man, but I didn’t read any posts on this thread suggesting his other options wouldn’t work.

 

[Cherokeeguide]

The TMK will 100% punch through a scapula at close distances, and still wreck the heart and lungs.

I don't doubt that for a second. I made the switch to the "TMK" 7 or 8 months ago. Only three deer with it, so far, but a pig or two every couple of weeks since making the switch.

It has no problem poking through heavier-duty anatomy of a wild boar and turning the animal's heart into goo.

 

[Panhandler80]

I know what you mean. The gold dots do less damage.

Isn’t this what’s in the Fusion? On paper this one just seems to be a great compromise of energy, energy transfer and penetration. Maybe I’m wrong for trying considering compromise in such a cartridge, though.

 

[gbflyer]

Isn’t this what’s in the Fusion? On paper this one just seems to be a great compromise of energy, energy transfer and penetration. Maybe I’m wrong for trying considering compromise in such a cartridge, though.

I believe they are the same. I don't think you're wrong. I like the TMK and the ELDm but they can be too much of a good thing in my limited experience. The gold dots seem to kill well with less carnage. My use is the same as yours, smaller deer not so far away.

 

[LongWayAround]

I haven't shot any deer with a .223, so take it for what it's worth but you could look for a Norma soft point. My lady shot a similar size deer as you described with them through a .243 at about 50yd and had a golf ball size exit.

I doubt it really matters inside of 100yd.

 

[43.6N]

Isn’t this what’s in the Fusion? On paper this one just seems to be a great compromise of energy, energy transfer and penetration. Maybe I’m wrong for trying considering compromise in such a cartridge, though.

They’re good bullets.
I’ve used the 30cal and 7mm versions a lot.

If you’re set on using something that isn’t a TMK, you could do much worse.
Put some through the rifle and see how it groups. And if you can, see how it performs on larger varmints.

 

[RockAndSage]

Except that, in this scenario, no one is saying his other options won’t work.

They’re simply saying that, given the sheer volume of data specific to his question, perhaps his third choice might want to shift up a couple of spots.

That’s all. I’m not a smart man, but I didn’t read any posts on this thread suggesting his other options wouldn’t work.

My comment wasn't directed so much at the OP, as it was just pointing out that what @Steve300xcw was mentioning does happen too much. And, I agree with you - the OP's original post didn't seem to exhibit having done a lot of reading on here, given both the absence of TMK options and the presence of TSX, and nothing heavy-for-caliber. My main point is that it would help conversations by including capabilities and limitations, along with "and here's an even better option".

 

[Panhandler80]

My comment wasn't directed so much at the OP, as it was just pointing out that what @Steve300xcw was mentioning does happen too much. And, I agree with you - the OP's original post didn't seem to exhibit having done a lot of reading on here, given both the absence of TMK options and the presence of TSX, and nothing heavy-for-caliber. My main point is that it would help conversations by including capabilities and limitations, along with "and here's an even better option".

I can't even find boxed ammo with Tipped Matchking in 223.

In my mind you have the 77 grain TMK... definitely a "heavy for caliber," and essentially a grenade.

The other two I mentioned was the 62gr fusion with what appears to be the 62 grain Speer Gold Dot. Something that is somewhat heavy for caliber, less grenade like than the TMK, but a little tougher with better penetration and weight retention, and according to some tests I've seen, pretty good expansion.

Then opposite end of spectrum form the beloved TMK, a 55 grain copper in the TSX. Obviously wanting to go light here since weight retention and penetration won't be a problem, but I do want to maintain as much speed as possible to aid in expansion.

In my simple brain, the weight of these three rounds matches the bullet design quite well, and would be the appropriate weight for the described application. If (and for whatever reason), a guy wasn't sold on the TMK route, I was just wondering which direction folks would go with the other two. I'm inclined to go the Fusion route which again, SEEMS, to be in the middle in terms of weight / construction / energy on impact and weight retention. I also mentioned initially that I've read enough to make my head spin. Bizarre that not blindly accepting the crowd favorite and instead seeking input results in, "Why don't you do more research?" Exhausting.

 

[Kyguy]

You ask for more input about bullets.... People that use the .223 on EVERYTHING tell you which bullets they use and have had outstanding success with. If they were having that same success with other bullets, they would tell you that. They're not. There's a reason.

People aren't telling you what you want to hear about the bullets you want to use. Again... There's a reason.

That's why they're telling you to do more research.

My simple brain tells me that you should go shoot as much shit with your bullet choices as the guys on here recommending things. If they work as well, spectacular, share the news. If they don't, then share that news too but don't be surprised when people say "I told you so."

 

[Panhandler80]

Do you have any coyotes or hogs you and your son could go shoot before deer season?
Gaining first hand experience with the bullet will be more valuable than anything else.

The fusion is plenty tough. No need to jump all the way to the tsx in terms of toughness.
The TMK will 100% punch through a scapula at close distances, and still wreck the heart and lungs.
A slightly tougher version of the TMK is the Sierra tipped game king. Thicker jacket, and harder lead. I have trouble getting it to reliably open below 2000fps in a 6.5creed.
I believe Sierra/Barnes loads it in the Harvest line of ammo. Could be worth checking out.

Harvest Collection .223 Rem 69gr

Pioneering the world's most effective all-copper hunting bullet. For over 30 years, we've been engineering the most advanced hunting bullets, trusted by the world's best hunters and shooters.

barnesbullets.com

But Again, to put your mind at ease, a regular 77tmk WILL punch through a scapula just fine inside of 100yds.

Yeah, that Barnes Harvest line with the 69 gr Gameking is interesting!

 

[RockAndSage]

I can't even find boxed ammo with Tipped Matchking in 223.

In my mind you have the 77 grain TMK... definitely a "heavy for caliber," and essentially a grenade.

The other two I mentioned was the 62gr fusion with what appears to be the 62 grain Speer Gold Dot. Something that is somewhat heavy for caliber, less grenade like than the TMK, but a little tougher with better penetration and weight retention, and according to some tests I've seen, pretty good expansion.

Then opposite end of spectrum form the beloved TMK, a 55 grain copper in the TSX. Obviously wanting to go light here since weight retention and penetration won't be a problem, but I do want to maintain as much speed as possible to aid in expansion.

In my simple brain, the weight of these three rounds matches the bullet design quite well, and would be the appropriate weight for the described application. If (and for whatever reason), a guy wasn't sold on the TMK route, I was just wondering which direction folks would go with the other two. I'm inclined to go the Fusion route which again, SEEMS, to be in the middle in terms of weight / construction / energy on impact and weight retention. I also mentioned initially that I've read enough to make my head spin. Bizarre that not blindly accepting the crowd favorite and instead seeking input results in, "Why don't you do more research?" Exhausting.

That helps and does clarify things. Makes sense from that perspective as well. Here's what I can offer:

1) Heavy-for-caliber helps with penetration, and generally, flight characteristics because of the better BC. But for most of these bullets and the realities people can shoot to, that extra mass, momentum, and sectional density help with penetration. It also provides a bit more material to fragment.

2) Fusions are known to be great bullets.

3) Only use copper if you're legally required to, then make sure it's going fast to ensure expansion, generally speaking.

4) Someone above linked to a post that discusses a lot of these specific .224 bullets - I asked its poster if he had any updates, here's what he offered: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...er-elk-and-moose.130488/page-669#post-4677545

Best suggestion: choose one, go with it, shoot the hell out of it, and give it no further thought unless it's not doing what you need it to.

 

[wind gypsy]

fusion/gold dot is the first thing that came to mind in the OP.

I know years ago i read good things about 65 grain game kings too. They aren't bonded but probably stouter than tmks.

 

[NDHUNTER24]

@Panhandler80 Ammoseek is where i look for 77TMK ammo if you change your mind, or are interested. Just make sure you put in 5.56X45mm instead of 223

 

[RockAndSage]

@Panhandler80 Ammoseek is where i look for 77TMK ammo if you change your mind, or are interested. Just make sure you put in 5.56X45mm instead of 223

@Panhandler80 , in addition to @NDHUNTER24 's suggestion, we have a Rokslider here who usually keeps Black Hills and Bone Frog in stock - @h2so4 . These are probably the two best 77gr TMK loadings on the market. If you are looking for TMK bullets to reload, @KyleR1985 can hook you up. Both of these guys are great to deal with, and offer excellent prices.