Help with release and finish

[cofen380]

So I’m struggling with where my hand finishes upon the release. In the first video my hand finishes near the back of my head, but first it goes straight down before coming back up behind my head.

In the second video my hand still goes down slightly, but then finishes back near my shoulder.

In both videos my hand is flying away from my face first. I was lucky enough to have a lesson with Tom Clum recently, and watching people with a clean release and follow though it looks like my hand should be staying near my face as it rotates back and around my head.

Am I creating tension in the wrong direction? Is either one of these flagrantly wrong? Any help from more experienced archers shooting NTS style is really appreciated.

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[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

If you are shooting a truly surprise break shot (external trigger of some type, be it limb/grip clicker or grip sear), your hand can only travel in the direction you are applying tension. I don't have much experience with a downward moving hand, but suspect you are overemphasiszing your elbow lift to anchor. The angle of your elbow to the string is changing as you raise the bow to your face.

Try thinking about lifting your entire forearm up and back on the escalator Tom talks about, and see if it helps.

 

[cofen380]

If you are shooting a truly surprise break shot (external trigger of some type, be it limb/grip clicker or grip sear), your hand can only travel in the direction you are applying tension. I don't have much experience with a downward moving hand, but suspect you are overemphasiszing your elbow lift to anchor. The angle of your elbow to the string is changing as you raise the bow to your face.

Try thinking about lifting your entire forearm up and back on the escalator Tom talks about, and see if it helps.

That’s interesting about the elbow height. Now that you mention it I do feel like my elbow tends to sit high in relation to my hand. I’m not currently shooting a trigger, but definitely trying to keep the release subconscious as I pull through. Thank you for your input


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[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

That’s interesting about the elbow height. Now that you mention it I do feel like my elbow tends to sit high in relation to my hand. I’m not currently shooting a trigger, but definitely trying to keep the release subconscious as I pull through. Thank you for your input


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If there's no trigger, all bets are off on what preignition movements you're going to have. But fixing the elbow might clean it up enough for your liking.

 

[Wilderlife]

Your second shot looked way better. Your first shot almost looked like the opening of your fingers was a conscious decision.

Things I would consider, or try...

Try and lower your string shoulder a touch. I agree with Trumpkin that it looks like your elbow being a little high is contributing to the idea or feeling of where you are trying to move the tension.

When I shot with Tom he noticed my hand coming straight back, then dipping down slightly, then ending up in a good position behind my head. Two things we worked on were:

1. Trying to emphasise a VERY strong hook, with most of the pressure being my index and middle fingers. I find if I get a little too much pressure on my ring finger, stuff like this tends to happen.

2. When driving the tension, think about 'elbow to tailbone'. I have a video somewhere of me working through my shots and Tom giving me this cue and the first time I ran it he got all giddy and excited.

My shot still isn't perfect but this hand issue is something I'm constantly working on and it's gotten a lot better over the last 1.5 years after getting a lesson with Tom.

 

[cofen380]

Your second shot looked way better. Your first shot almost looked like the opening of your fingers was a conscious decision.

Things I would consider, or try...

Try and lower your string shoulder a touch. I agree with Trumpkin that it looks like your elbow being a little high is contributing to the idea or feeling of where you are trying to move the tension.

When I shot with Tom he noticed my hand coming straight back, then dipping down slightly, then ending up in a good position behind my head. Two things we worked on were:

1. Trying to emphasise a VERY strong hook, with most of the pressure being my index and middle fingers. I find if I get a little too much pressure on my ring finger, stuff like this tends to happen.

2. When driving the tension, think about 'elbow to tailbone'. I have a video somewhere of me working through my shots and Tom giving me this cue and the first time I ran it he got all giddy and excited.

My shot still isn't perfect but this hand issue is something I'm constantly working on and it's gotten a lot better over the last 1.5 years after getting a lesson with Tom.

That’s really helpful, thank you! It’s good to know someone else is working through that too. Yeah that first shot I know for a fact I was trying to force my hand into that position behind my head, which was probably contributing to a very intentional release. I hadn’t thought about having too much pressure on my ring finger. I’ll definitely keep that in mind.
I think I’m going to start working from up to close to the target on keeping my elbow down and increasing tension in the right direction after the transfer to hold. I watched a couple Jake kaminski videos on it and he mentioned viewing the shot process ending when you reach maximum range of motion with your scapula after following through, as opposed to the end of the shot being the release. That made sense in my mind.


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[3Esski]

These kind of threads stress me out. my hand doesn't move at all after I shoot and now, I feel like I am doing something wrong.

 

[cofen380]

These kind of threads stress me out. my hand doesn't move at all after I shoot and now, I feel like I am doing something wrong.

Join the club haha I overthink everything. Jump in and post a video!


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[bowhuntercoop]

Ring finger presssue, Tom fixed mine instally first time I shot with him. To this day when I get stressed out I tend to have to much hand tension, leads to ring pressure and will mess up a bareshaft real quick!

Deep hook, back pull, less tension in the hands will fix it. Sounds easy but we all know it’s not haha.

 

[cofen380]

Ring finger presssue, Tom fixed mine instally first time I shot with him. To this day when I get stressed out I tend to have to much hand tension, leads to ring pressure and will mess up a bareshaft real quick!

Deep hook, back pull, less tension in the hands will fix it. Sounds easy but we all know it’s not haha.

When you say less tension in the hand, do you mean just a slightly more relaxed forearm and hand during the draw and hold? And when you say a deep hook, where exactly are you referring to the string being in your fingers to be considered a deep hook?


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[bowhuntercoop]

When you say less tension in the hand, do you mean just a slightly more relaxed forearm and hand during the draw and hold? And when you say a deep hook, where exactly are you referring to the string being in your fingers to be considered a deep hook?


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Super relaxed forearm. The late great Arny Mo has a video on YouTube using a draw sling to show no forearms tension.

For the hook I want it in the first crease of the index and middle. I almost roll most the tension on my index finger similar to shooting a hinge on a compound. I just use the ring finger for a guide, say less then 10 percent tension on it.

I would say I learned to draw with 50/40 tension on the first two finger of the hook but it’s not really tension as much as just a curl to the hook. Pull with the back, set into hold, continuing pulling with my scapula toward my neck, over the back, shot breaks.

It’s hard to explain but with a high elbow most guys are shoulder pulling. Which leads to they low release dip and finishing over the back.

If you’re bow arm is at 12 o’clock your draw arm is at 6 o’clock your scapula and pulling motion for back tension should be focused at pulling at 9 o’clock, when the shot breaks your hand will finishing over your shoulder every time if you don’t have forearm and hand tension. Tom explains it in person much better then me that’s for sure!

 

[Beendare]

Super relaxed forearm. The late great Arny Mo has a video on YouTube using a draw sling to show no forearms tension.

For the hook I want it in the first crease of the index and middle. I almost roll most the tension on my index finger similar to shooting a hinge on a compound. I just use the ring finger for a guide, say less then 10 percent tension on it.

I would say I learned to draw with 50/40 tension on the first two finger of the hook but it’s not really tension as much as just a curl to the hook. Pull with the back, set into hold, continuing pulling with my scapula toward my neck, over the back, shot breaks.

It’s hard to explain but with a high elbow most guys are shoulder pulling. Which leads to they low release dip and finishing over the back.

If you’re bow arm is at 12 o’clock your draw arm is at 6 o’clock your scapula and pulling motion for back tension should be focused at pulling at 9 o’clock, when the shot breaks your hand will finishing over your shoulder every time if you don’t have forearm and hand tension. Tom explains it in person much better then me that’s for sure!

Good post ^

That relaxed forearm and back tension with my hand tight to my face leads to the best follow through in my experience.

Just keep videoing your shot and checking results....that will tell you what works for you. I like to narrate each shot...so for example I say on the vid if it felt right, or if it felt like I did something wrong....that helps with self diagnosing my shot.

 

[cofen380]

Super relaxed forearm. The late great Arny Mo has a video on YouTube using a draw sling to show no forearms tension.

For the hook I want it in the first crease of the index and middle. I almost roll most the tension on my index finger similar to shooting a hinge on a compound. I just use the ring finger for a guide, say less then 10 percent tension on it.

I would say I learned to draw with 50/40 tension on the first two finger of the hook but it’s not really tension as much as just a curl to the hook. Pull with the back, set into hold, continuing pulling with my scapula toward my neck, over the back, shot breaks.

It’s hard to explain but with a high elbow most guys are shoulder pulling. Which leads to they low release dip and finishing over the back.

If you’re bow arm is at 12 o’clock your draw arm is at 6 o’clock your scapula and pulling motion for back tension should be focused at pulling at 9 o’clock, when the shot breaks your hand will finishing over your shoulder every time if you don’t have forearm and hand tension. Tom explains it in person much better then me that’s for sure!

Gotcha that makes sense. I took some shots in the yard today really focusing on only using minimal tension on my ring finger. On top of that making sure to build tension up to the release and keeping a relaxed forearm. It seems like my finish is looking better and my hand not flying away quite as bad. I’d love to get to a point where that hand slides along the face and back around the head without flying away at all, but most people I see with that clean of a release have years and years of experience. There’s something about it that just looks right


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[cofen380]

Update:

Ok so here’s a current video after trying to work on 1) less pressure on my ring finger hook 2) increasing tension with emphasis on elbow pressing down and around 3) hand finishing behind my head

I feel like this is an improvement. To me the motion seems more smooth and there’s less downward movement from my hand. Let me know if anyone has any thoughts.

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[Matt O]

Shot looks pretty good to me. Does anyone have any tips for maintaining a loose forearm? That seems to be something I struggle with as well, even though I'm consciously trying to avoid tension there.

 

[cofen380]

Shot looks pretty good to me. Does anyone have any tips for maintaining a loose forearm? That seems to be something I struggle with as well, even though I'm consciously trying to avoid tension there.

Appreciate it. I’d love to hear any tips for that as well


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[Beendare]

Looks good. You are struggling a little at FD…might be overbowed making it hard to have rock solid alignment

 

[cofen380]

Looks good. You are struggling a little at FD…might be overbowed making it hard to have rock solid alignment

You could definitely be right. I had been shooting quite a bit before the video too which didn’t help. I’m gonna keep these limbs on for now since I’m hunting with them, but I try to keep my shot count low if I start feeling like the weight is interfering with my form


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[travis.smith]

Your second shot looked way better. Your first shot almost looked like the opening of your fingers was a conscious decision.

Things I would consider, or try...

Try and lower your string shoulder a touch. I agree with Trumpkin that it looks like your elbow being a little high is contributing to the idea or feeling of where you are trying to move the tension.

When I shot with Tom he noticed my hand coming straight back, then dipping down slightly, then ending up in a good position behind my head. Two things we worked on were:

1. Trying to emphasise a VERY strong hook, with most of the pressure being my index and middle fingers. I find if I get a little too much pressure on my ring finger, stuff like this tends to happen.

2. When driving the tension, think about 'elbow to tailbone'. I have a video somewhere of me working through my shots and Tom giving me this cue and the first time I ran it he got all giddy and excited.

My shot still isn't perfect but this hand issue is something I'm constantly working on and it's gotten a lot better over the last 1.5 years after getting a lesson with Tom.

Not to hijack the thread but I always read every trad post just to pick up tips on form as I’m new to trad. Your tip about “elbow to tailbone” improved my shooting so much it’s crazy. Just wanted to say this as it was something I wasn’t conscious about at all before.

 

[Samdemarais]

You could check out Jake Kaminskis videos on release. He talks about trying to think about using your jaw or anchor point as the pivot point to keep your release high and moving back and behind your head.