Help - tikka decision

[Oldffemt]

The short mags have less mass and have a faster burn rate.

I can tell a noticable difference in reloader 20 vs reloader 25, and likewise ramshot hunter vs ramshot magnum in my 300 win mag, the faster powders have a shorter faster recoil impulse. Having a good slow burn with a long heavy barrel really does a lot to tame 300 win mag.

I do hunt with a 270 win, and appreciate it. But i also respect the wind drift resistance and energy retention of heavy bullets from 300 win mag. Your in the minority thinking it is unshootable. It is very common here for elk. Of course body size and muscle mass do play a factor in how much recoil wallops someone. No different that people from low elevation flat land struggling to pack elk out over rough terrain at 10,000 feet.

Well, how big a boy are ya? Never said a 300 anything was unshootable. I’ve spent some time with 300 win as well and recognize the difference between 300win and wsm recoil. You’re right that the win mag recoil impulse can be less sharp. Most hunters don’t shoot at long enough range to ever see the wind resistance of heavy 30 cal bullets. From what I’m seeing with my new 6.5 prc, I question the need, especially for someone who hasn’t purchased the rifle yet and as op stated, has never shot a lightweight 300 magnum.
My point is, if op hasn’t dropped the $$ on a lightweight magnum, it may be a good idea to look at something a little less sporty. If elk are the primary target, fine. Plenty have been killed with anything from a .243 and up. If it’s my money, I’m spending it on something that I can afford to shoot and that won’t beat the sh*t out of me when I’m practicing. Of course, I also believe that my manhood is not tied to the size of my cartridge in any way and elk tend to die when I shoot at them, even with my creedmoor.
A fast twist 243ai will be my next experiment.

 

[270-300]

Well, how big a boy are ya? Never said a 300 anything was unshootable. I’ve spent some time with 300 win as well and recognize the difference between 300win and wsm recoil. You’re right that the win mag recoil impulse can be less sharp. Most hunters don’t shoot at long enough range to ever see the wind resistance of heavy 30 cal bullets. From what I’m seeing with my new 6.5 prc, I question the need, especially for someone who hasn’t purchased the rifle yet and as op stated, has never shot a lightweight 300 magnum.
My point is, if op hasn’t dropped the $$ on a lightweight magnum, it may be a good idea to look at something a little less sporty. If elk are the primary target, fine. Plenty have been killed with anything from a .243 and up. If it’s my money, I’m spending it on something that I can afford to shoot and that won’t beat the sh*t out of me when I’m practicing. Of course, I also believe that my manhood is not tied to the size of my cartridge in any way and elk tend to die when I shoot at them, even with my creedmoor.
A fast twist 243ai will be my next experiment.

The op already has a 270. Hes looking for magnum to complement it. No one has ever said 300 win mag is needed for white tails.

 

[Axlrod]

The short mags have less mass and have a faster burn rate.

I can tell a noticable difference in reloader 20 vs reloader 25, and likewise ramshot hunter vs ramshot magnum in my 300 win mag, the faster powders have a shorter faster recoil impulse. Having a good slow burn with a long heavy barrel really does a lot to tame 300 win mag.

I do hunt with a 270 win, and appreciate it. But i also respect the wind drift resistance and energy retention of heavy bullets from 300 win mag. Your in the minority thinking it is unshootable. It is very common here for elk. Of course body size and muscle mass do play a factor in how much recoil wallops someone. No different that people from low elevation flat land struggling to pack elk out over rough terrain at 10,000 feet.

The difference is Reloder 20 is imaginary!
Your posts are pure nonsence.
You have stated on different threads that you only shoot your gun 10 times/year. And you are on pace to hit 4526 posts about shooting in your first year here?? Seems like you might know a whole lot more about posting, than you do about shooting.

 

[Macintosh]

You guys are off in the rough arguing about micro-level stuff, and totally missing the bigger point. We dont even know if OP is reloading at all, and we really have no idea the distance at which he’s looking to use the gun on game. All we know is he wanted a 300magnum of some sort for some reason, he already owns a 270win, he’s probably not getting a suppressor soon, and he’s agonizing over 22 vs 24” barrels. The point made was 2” of barrel length isnt going to make enough of a difference, all other things being equal, to override the other factors in deciding which gun to buy. Slow powder or fast, I call “total BS” on anyone who says they can shoot the difference between those two barrels, or see a terminal difference between those two barrels at any range less than “way tf out there”. And probably total bs even then. This is the definition of splitting hairs.

Re suppressor length barrels: yes, pretty much always, shortening a barrel slows the projectile compared to same load in a longer barrel. Yes, if you chop enough off that turns a 300mag into a 30-06 and then a 308. Yes, that sometimes results in a fireball. Question is why people think that matters? The suppressor eats up your fireball. If the velocity lost matters because you are ACTUALLY dropping below required terminal velocity for a specific bullet to upset at a range you are capable of shooting at game (reliably)—well then great, thats a reason to stick with a longer barrel. Otherwise, you arent using that velocity anyway, so unless you are going to adjust the cartridge down to the level you actually need, who cares?? If, after chopping the barrel another cartridge achieves getting the projectile you want to use, to the same distance at the speed you want, then by all means try that instead if theres a benefit such as recoil, etc. but if you’re getting a magnum cartridge “just because”, as opposed to actually needing the velocity to achieve upset at a specific distance, then its an emotional want anyway…and we’re right back to “who cares, get what you want because it doesnt matter”.

 

[FuddRucker]

Thanks y'all. I knew I was in the minutiae and probably splitting hairs. Didn't mean for this to turn into a thread about cartridge selection, but it seems as if the consensus is "get something else." It's not clear to me whether the response would have been the same if I was comparing rifles chambered in 7 prc or 7 mag, but I'll keep thinking about if 300 win in a light platform is really best suited for my needs and research some other options.

I landed on the cartridge originally because I want something sufficiently different from my .270 and I like the idea of pushing a heavy bullet fast. I'm well aware that comes with a recoil penalty though its possible I'm naive about my ability to handle recoil.

I also don't reload, so factory ammo it is. I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Oldffemt]

Thanks y'all. I knew I was in the minutiae and probably splitting hairs. Didn't mean for this to turn into a thread about cartridge selection, but it seems as if the consensus is "get something else." It's not clear to me whether the response would have been the same if I was comparing rifles chambered in 7 prc or 7 mag, but I'll keep thinking about if 300 win in a light platform is really best suited for my needs and research some other options.

I landed on the cartridge originally because I want something sufficiently different from my .270 and I like the idea of pushing a heavy bullet fast. I'm well aware that comes with a recoil penalty though its possible I'm naive about my ability to handle recoil.

I also don't reload, so factory ammo it is. I appreciate everyone's input.

Sorry op, I missed that you already have a 270. Certainly not enough difference between that and the 6.5 prc I recommended (inside sane hunting ranges) to be worth buying another rifle. How far are you hoping to shoot? Have you ever considered going the other way and shooting a heavy for cal 6mm bullet fast? Plenty of killing power for anything in NA and factory ammo for 243 or 6cm is very available. Lots of benefits to going that route.

 

[mother_plucker]

Which is why it’s stupid to suppress magnums…..

I'll suppress my magnums any day! Makes them so much nicer to shoot without ear pro...

 

[Mike D Texas]

So you dont have any evidence of this? No scientific testing, just your own conclusions?

WTF are you actually talking about?

I provided my in person experience that contradicts what you stated.

I take what I see with my own eyes pretty seriously, not what some anonymous yahoo in the internet spouts out.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

WTF are you actually talking about?

I provided my in person experience that contradicts what you stated.

I take what I see with my own eyes pretty seriously, not what some anonymous yahoo in the internet spouts out.

He's a moron.

 

[UPThunderbolt]

Thanks y'all. I knew I was in the minutiae and probably splitting hairs. Didn't mean for this to turn into a thread about cartridge selection, but it seems as if the consensus is "get something else." It's not clear to me whether the response would have been the same if I was comparing rifles chambered in 7 prc or 7 mag, but I'll keep thinking about if 300 win in a light platform is really best suited for my needs and research some other options.

I landed on the cartridge originally because I want something sufficiently different from my .270 and I like the idea of pushing a heavy bullet fast. I'm well aware that comes with a recoil penalty though its possible I'm naive about my ability to handle recoil.

I also don't reload, so factory ammo it is. I appreciate everyone's input.

Hey Fudd, sometimes a fellow just needs a new rifle. I’ve got three right now (25:06, 30:06, and .300 win mag). I didn’t need the .300 but I was going on a bucket list, fly-in moose hunt in Alaska and I wanted a new rifle for the occasion. All three of my rifles are Tikkas. The .300 is the T3X lite, the others are wooden stock Hunter models. There are two reasons I went this route. First, I’m extremely happy with Tikka. Second, and to me just as important, it doesn’t matter which one I’m shooting because the actions and set up are identical. With that in mind, most of my practice is done with the 25. I’ll put a few rounds through the .30 cals, but I don’t need to beat myself up when shooting up a box of ammo. (I do handload and the bullets I shoot from the 25 are much cheaper than the .30 cals). When I get into the field for a hunt, I don’t even think about which rifle I have in hand. Everything comes natural and, quite honestly, when shooting at game, I don’t feel the recoil. All this is to say, an option could be to purchase the .300 win mag with an action that matches your .270. Do most of your practice with the .270 and hunt with which ever suites your fancy.

We all have our own programs, this is mine.

Half of the fun is the anticipation and process of getting a new rifle. Enjoy!

 

[Choupique]

effectively turning 300.win mag into 30 06

I love it when people make these kinds of comments.

Same bore, damn near twice as much fuel tank. No .30-06 load is outrunning a .300 win mag load out of any barrel length over about 3 inches.

 

[270-300]

I love it when people make these kinds of comments.

Same bore, damn near twice as much fuel tank. No .30-06 load is outrunning a .300 win mag load out of any barrel length over about 3 inches.

Id be glad to read your sources for the claims you make.

 

[270-300]

I love it when people make these kinds of comments.

Same bore, damn near twice as much fuel tank. No .30-06 load is outrunning a .300 win mag load out of any barrel length over about 3 inches.

You dont seem to be understanding the conversation here. The guy i was replying too had some really complicated way of saying cutting barrels off does not matter because a cut down 300 win mag barrel still has 2592 fps in 300 win mag with his powder of choice. He did not specify bullet weight, but to give him benefit of the doubt im using 180 grain hornady american white tail. Its a run of the mill loading in a popular bullet weight for 300 win mag. Here it shows 2700 fps. Hence my statement, by cutting a 300 win mag barrel down he made it slower than 30 06.

Loading manuals tend to show faster burning powders in 30 06 than they do 300 win mag. My hornady manual specifies 300 win mag has a slower powder to take advantage of longer barrels.

30‑06 Springfield 180 gr InterLock® SP American Whitetail® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

...

www.hornady.com

 

[270-300]

WTF are you actually talking about?

I provided my in person experience that contradicts what you stated.

I take what I see with my own eyes pretty seriously, not what some anonymous yahoo in the internet spouts out.

The problem is, the people who do extensive testing at the ammunition companies are simply not drawing the same results you have concluded in your head. Loading manuals go into great details about powder burn rates for barrel lengths and bullet weights. There are several ammunition manufacturers out there who publish chronograph data for various barrel lengths, and none of them are saying what you are.

 

[Choupique]

be glad to read your sources for the claims you make

No. Im not doing your homework for you. You're vomiting nonsense.

 

[Axlrod]

The problem is, the people who do extensive testing at the ammunition companies are simply not drawing the same results you have concluded in your head. Loading manuals go into great details about powder burn rates for barrel lengths and bullet weights. There are several ammunition manufacturers out there who publish chronograph data for various barrel lengths, and none of them are saying what you are.

Please tell me the name of one company, that has compared slow powder vs. fast powder, in a non-traditional barrel length. And the name of one "Loading manuals go into great details about powder burn rates for barrel lengths and bullet weights". And any experience you have first hand knowledge with this subject.

While it may seem like faster powder would work better in short barrels, it does not. Going off what someone feels should be true, is useless, compared to what real world experience provides.

I have tested short barrels (16"-20") in 223(4), 223AI(2), 243AI(2), 6Max(2), 6-7PRC, 270, 300WM. 4 of these guns were cut down, the rest were purpose built. In every single case the highest velo possible, was with the slower powder. In the cut down guns faster and slower powders were compared before and after. The result was a loss of around 40 fps for every inch of barrel lost, no matter the powder. With the fastest powder before, still the fastest after.