Help me understand zero and altitude

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I have a Mountain goat hunting coming up and have been shooting a lot in anticipation. I’m zeroed for 250yd at 1000ft altitude. The more I think about it, when I get to 5000ft wont by sero be off by a couple inches? Does everybody re zero when they get to hunting elevation or do I zero a couple inches low at home so it is accurate at 5000?
 
I re zero when there’s a big jump in altitude. I’ve noticed a few inches so it’s worth doing but do your research because you may or may not be able to test your rifle at 5000 feet.

I basically live at sea level but went on some trips where the elevation was roughly 5000 feet, I got to a shooting range that was at 5009 feet and I was 2” high at 100. I gave it a few clicks and it was back to being dead on. Worked great on the hunt.
 
Zeroing at 100 is more reliable with elevation changes, you wont see your zero change due to elevation at that range. It's the rest of your dope at longer range that will change. Plug it in for your parameters, but depending on what you need and your conditions it may not matter enough to actually matter.
For what it's worth, I live at a DA of 1300' (today), and I compared it to a DA of 5000' using my dope for my .270win. My solution only changed enough to register a .1 change beginning at 375 yards, and it's still only a click different out past 500. My short-barreled 6.5cm changed .1mil beginning at 350, but it was within .1mil out to 500 as well due to rounding to the nearest .1mil. So the effect isnt so significant depending on the maximum range you are counting on being able to shoot. In other words, going from roughly 1000' to 5000', on both of my rifles, if I was zeroed at 250 yards my scope doesnt have enough resolution to adjust the difference. It's near the end of my effective range I'd be more worried about (.1mil @ 400 or 500 on top of my wobble, ranging error, odd angles, etc probably starts to matter). Again, do it with your rifle and plug in numbers you think are accurate for environmentals, you may have a different setup, but at least on mine withthe conditions I used it might not matter. Now, if you were going to 10,000' and planned to shoot out to longer range, different story—a 100 yard zero would still not change enough to adjust it, but at longer range it will definitely matter. My 6.5 dope below for comparison.


IMG_8021.pngIMG_8020.png
 
OP if your plan was to zero at 250 yards then hold a little high or low based on distance, the zero change from elevation won’t make a meaningful difference as it’s fractions of an inch. Your holds would be the main source of error. If you dial, then zero at 100, and shoot to your max distance at the higher elevation to confirm your solutions. Either way, I’d shoot once you reach your destination. If you find a problem you can deal with it. If you don’t it’s good practice before a hunt.
 
4DOF with Gun Angle makes this easy. Input local conditions when you establish your (hopefully 20+ shot) zero and then make adjustments for local conditions when you hunt/shoot.
 
OP. Listen to @wind gypsy advice on this one.

No need to dick around with zero angle, 200 yards zeros, and all the other garbage over complicating a good 100 yard zero. I used to be like this, it’s not the way.

Zero at your home range at 100 yards. Get a good and known solid zero. Go hunt anywhere in the world at any elevation and simply adjust dope for current feels like air (density altitude).

There is no need to adjust a zero once at hunting location unless the travel to caused an impact shift in the gun/scope setup. This happens more often than folks think and they blame “elevation” or other factors that don’t matter.
 
I re zero when there’s a big jump in altitude. I’ve noticed a few inches so it’s worth doing but do your research because you may or may not be able to test your rifle at 5000 feet.

I basically live at sea level but went on some trips where the elevation was roughly 5000 feet, I got to a shooting range that was at 5009 feet and I was 2” high at 100. I gave it a few clicks and it was back to being dead on. Worked great on the hunt.
Your 100 yard zero will not shift 2” high going from sea level to 5000 feet.

Something else in the overall system shifted your impact or you never had a true/known 100 yard cone of fire for the gun (which can easily be 2”).
 
Zeroing at 100 is more reliable with elevation changes, you wont see your zero change due to elevation at that range. It's the rest of your dope at longer range that will change. Plug it in for your parameters, but depending on what you need and your conditions it may not matter enough to actually matter.
For what it's worth, I live at a DA of 1300' (today), and I compared it to a DA of 5000' using my dope for my .270win. My solution only changed enough to register a .1 change beginning at 375 yards, and it's still only a click different out past 500. My short-barreled 6.5cm changed .1mil beginning at 350, but it was within .1mil out to 500 as well due to rounding to the nearest .1mil. So the effect isnt so significant depending on the maximum range you are counting on being able to shoot. In other words, going from roughly 1000' to 5000', on both of my rifles, if I was zeroed at 250 yards my scope doesnt have enough resolution to adjust the difference. It's near the end of my effective range I'd be more worried about (.1mil @ 400 or 500 on top of my wobble, ranging error, odd angles, etc probably starts to matter). Again, do it with your rifle and plug in numbers you think are accurate for environmentals, you may have a different setup, but at least on mine withthe conditions I used it might not matter. Now, if you were going to 10,000' and planned to shoot out to longer range, different story. My 6.5 dope below for comparison.


View attachment 924157View attachment 924158

What tool is that screenshot from?
 
I have a Mountain goat hunting coming up and have been shooting a lot in anticipation. I’m zeroed for 250yd at 1000ft altitude. The more I think about it, when I get to 5000ft wont by sero be off by a couple inches? Does everybody re zero when they get to hunting elevation or do I zero a couple inches low at home so it is accurate at 5000?
I beseech you to listen to @mxgsfmdpx on this. It's been covered elsewhere, but for posterity:

1) A 100 yard zero will not change meaningfully between Death Valley and the summit of Denali.
2) A 100 yard zero is least susceptible to range error (flattest portion of trajectory) and external factors (wind, baro, AJ).
3) You can absolutely walk around with your desired 250yd elevation setting by simply dialing it onto the rifle after zeroing, but at least your underlying data will be high quality.
4) Depending on how you've set up your rifle and optic, you may very well have a zero shift from the rigors of travel - do not misinterpret this as a difference in inherent zero between those altitudes and temperatures, which can be mathematically established to not exist. For this reason, it's good practice to shoot half a box at 100 yards when you land.

Best,
-J
 
Your 100 yard zero will not shift 2” high going from sea level to 5000 feet.

Something else in the overall system shifted your impact or you never had a true/known 100 yard cone of fire for the gun (which can easily be 2”).
Nope. Nothing else changed.
 
The elevation & baro delta on 5k' account for about .1 mil or one third of an inch. Where do you think your other 1.7" came from?

-J
Maybe it wasn’t a whole 2 inches, I didn’t give it much thought. Gave it a few clicks and it was on. Took a ram at 350 with it a few days later so honestly I don’t give a shit.

It’s not something I’ve given much thought to. When I got home it was shooting low, I gave it the same number of clicks back up and it was back on.
 
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The elevation & baro delta on 5k' account for about .1 mil or one third of an inch. Where do you think your other 1.7" came from?

-J


It’s not .1 mil.


200 yard zero, checking offset at 100 yards.

0ft DA- 2.04 moa
IMG_0204.png


5009ft, 1.98 MOA-
IMG_0205.png


For a difference of .06 moa. Or 1/4th of a .25 moa click.



Even using a stupidly, ridiculously, unrealistically high DA it’s 1.87 MOA-
IMG_0203.png


For a difference of .17 moa- or half a click.





I re zero when there’s a big jump in altitude. I’ve noticed a few inches so it’s worth doing but do your research because you may or may not be able to test your rifle at 5000 feet.

I basically live at sea level but went on some trips where the elevation was roughly 5000 feet, I got to a shooting range that was at 5009 feet and I was 2” high at 100. I gave it a few clicks and it was back to being dead on. Worked great on the hunt.

Elevation did not change your 100 yard POI. See above.
 
It’s not .1 mil.


200 yard zero, checking offset at 100 yards.

0ft DA- 2.04 moa
View attachment 924232


5009ft, 1.97 MOA-
View attachment 924235


For a difference of .06 moa. Or 1/4th of a .25 moa click.



Even using a stupidly, ridiculously, unrealistically high DA it’s

1.87 MOA-
View attachment 924233



For a difference of .17 moa- or half a click.







Elevation did not change your 100 yard POI. See above.

What was "stupidly, ridiculously, unrealistically high" DA that was used for the last one? seems like you used the wrong screenshot?
 
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