Help me pick a tikka stock.

[Lawnboi]

I know it probably doesn’t help make you feel better but AG composites fixed this inlet issue with the new mold. My last was a drop in and go.

I have said it on here quite a few times but I’m a really big fan of the fit of my AG composite. I believe they’re shipping direct now to consumers? The vertical grip is great, they reduce recoil way better than the factory stock, and for long range shooting they’re a much more stable platform for me over the factory stock.

I liked the alpine hunter ergonomics. Wasn’t sure about the aluminum block imbedded to tap in the front though.

I was an early finder of the problem they had and didn’t want to wait for them to make it right. Partially because I was so pissed the gunsmith would send something like that out. Never did get my money back for that bed job on a stock that wouldn’t feed. But I’m glad they got the mold figured out.

An eh1 is nearly the same feel with a little less boxy foreend and a slightly slimmer grip.

 

[Balderdash]

I really like the Mesa Altitude on mine. It’s not trim but also not heavy. I like having a bit more “purchase” on it.


View attachment 475463Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I also have a Mesa altitude on a Tikka. I like it. It's light. Few things I'd change, but I'll likely buy more. For me, the comb height and stock design are a good fit. I should add that I'm 6' 2" and monte Carlo designs tend to suit my build.

I'll likely try an IOTA and Stockys Carbon VG at some point.

You said you're trying to cut weight, so I hesitate to mention it, but I have Boyds laminate, Prairie hunter profile stocks on several rigs, and I really like their ergos and barrel channel rigidity; it's my favorite stock profile for general big game hunting. I'm putting together a longer AICS mag, 7mm rem mag, Tikka with one right now. For this rig, I wanted to add a bit of weight so the laminate is a good fit.

 

[Lawnboi]

Yes it would be for a 30-06

I’d stay away from anything with a Monte Carlo style rear end, and favor something with the bore as close to in line with the recoil pad as possible.

With my 11 pound 3006 shooting 185s supressed I can spot shots at 400 yards because the stock works with me not against.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I’d stay away from anything with a Monte Carlo style rear end, and favor something with the bore as close to in line with the recoil pad as possible.

With my 11 pound 3006 shooting 185s supressed I can spot shots at 400 yards because the stock works with me not against.

Right, I don't really want a monte carlo stock, this gun is right around 8.25lbs and I can sport the shots since the silencer takes a lot of the blast and recoil away. It also has a limbsaver on it which might help a bit.

 

[Balderdash]

I’d stay away from anything with a Monte Carlo style rear end, and favor something with the bore as close to in line with the recoil pad as possible.

With my 11 pound 3006 shooting 185s supressed I can spot shots at 400 yards because the stock works with me not against.

I see this a lot, and I know what guys are getting at as far as getting the recoil force to stay linear, but, for me, comb height and check piece configuration are the most important factor. I shoot a lot better in field positions when I can put down pressure on the comb. If you have to lift your head up to see through the scope, you loose a pressure point and you open yourself up to get strick by the comb. Not being perfectly aligned with the scope also makes any parallax a bigger factor.

If you look at the Mesa Altitudes, they could've made the butt of the stock the full height of the comb so that it would look like the Stocky Carbon VG, but what would that change in actual use? Certainly different people have different body structures, but you're not resting the top 5% of the pad on your shoulder. At least, that's not how things line up for me.

 

[Lawnboi]

I see this a lot, and I know what guys are getting at as far as getting the recoil force to stay linear, but, for me, comb height and check piece configuration are the most important factor. I shoot a lot better in field positions when I can put down pressure on the comb. If you have to lift your head up to see through the scope, you loose a pressure point and you open yourself up to get strick by the comb. Not being perfectly aligned with the scope also makes any parallax a bigger factor.

If you look at the Mesa Altitudes, they could've made the butt of the stock the full height of the comb so that it would look like the Stocky Carbon VG, but what would that change in actual use? Certainly different people have different body structures, but you're not resting the top 5% of the pad on your shoulder. At least, that's not how things line up for me.

It makes a bigger difference than you believe. Luckily I have had the opptitunity to shoot a mesa in the same caliber/barrel and similar weight scope back to back with both mcmillan game wardens and manners eh1. Iv also got plenty of time behind a bravo and factory hardware on the same rifles. It becomes apparent, especially shooting from field positions.

Versus something like an eh1, you have the same comb but it’s carried to the rear.

Other issue with the Mesa is the traditional slope on the bottom of the butt, it dosnt play well with a shooting bag, your bino harness or puffy jacket, whatever your stuffing down there. Recoil immediately causes a loss of control of the rear of the rifle.

Cheek pressure is subjective. Prefer contact but little pressure. My groups grow If I Induce cheek pressure on my hunting weight guns. While some cheek pressure can surely help stabilize a prone or bench shot, when you are shooting without the use of a rear support cheek pressure causes issues. This is one thing shooting Kraft drills with hunting guns taught me fairly quickly. Part of the reason your being hit with the comb on the Mesa is that your shoulder is so low the rifle has no option but to rise on recoil. Something that places your shoulder a little higher and in line with the bore eliminates a lot of that rise.

If Mesa continued the cheek piece up and had no dip it could be an excellent stock. I’d still prefer a flatter rear and on the bottom. I thought the Mesa I handled, shot and loaded for was a well built stock but it was the worst stock Iv ever shot on a tikka ergonomics wise.

 

[ecollier]

I’ve come around to your way of thinking I have McMillans and a bravo. They’re great but my current project (.223) is staying in the factory stock (plus vertical grip, LOP spacers, and a comb riser).

What are you planning on going with for the comb riser? I have a Tikka T3X Lite on order and am looking into the add-ons rather that dropping $600-800 on a stock right away.

 

[Formidilosus]

I see this a lot, and I know what guys are getting at as far as getting the recoil force to stay linear, but, for me, comb height and check piece configuration are the most important factor. I shoot a lot better in field positions when I can put down pressure on the comb. If you have to lift your head up to see through the scope, you loose a pressure point and you open yourself up to get strick by the comb. Not being perfectly aligned with the scope also makes any parallax a bigger factor.

That is easily solved with a comb height adjustment- in the stock or a pad. However, I have yet to see a single person shoot the exact same rifle with a Mesa better or even as well as the same rifle in a better designed stock from field positions.

If you look at the Mesa Altitudes, they could've made the butt of the stock the full height of the comb so that it would look like the Stocky Carbon VG, but what would that change in actual use?

A lot, and it only takes about ten rounds to see it. The Mess makes spotting one’s own shots a very low probability.

Certainly different people have different body structures, but you're not resting the top 5% of the pad on your shoulder. At least, that's not how things line up for me.

This isn’t a “I like, I think, I feel” it is a 100% statement of fact and applies to everyone, everywhere baring some extreme injury- the Mesa is one of the poorest stock designs on the market for every reason that Lawnboi stated. It is a mechanical fact that it increases muzzle rise during recoil which makes felt or perceived recoil go up, cheek slap happen, and loss of sight picture during recoil. The underside of the butt being so sloped makes the rifle slide out of position on a rest and further increases muzzle rise and cheek slap.


I have shot a lot of rounds through Mesa’s, I’ve videod through the scope, and compared them directly to other stocks on the same rifles- during recoil the Mesa has around 2-4 times as much muzzle movement for the same shooter and rifle and a properly designed stock of the same weight.

 

[Balderdash]

It makes a bigger difference than you believe. Luckily I have had the opptitunity to shoot a mesa in the same caliber/barrel and similar weight scope back to back with both mcmillan game wardens and manners eh1. Iv also got plenty of time behind a bravo and factory hardware on the same rifles. It becomes apparent, especially shooting from field positions.

Versus something like an eh1, you have the same comb but it’s carried to the rear.

Other issue with the Mesa is the traditional slope on the bottom of the butt, it dosnt play well with a shooting bag, your bino harness or puffy jacket, whatever your stuffing down there. Recoil immediately causes a loss of control of the rear of the rifle.

Cheek pressure is subjective. Prefer contact but little pressure. My groups grow If I Induce cheek pressure on my hunting weight guns. While some cheek pressure can surely help stabilize a prone or bench shot, when you are shooting without the use of a rear support cheek pressure causes issues. This is one thing shooting Kraft drills with hunting guns taught me fairly quickly. Part of the reason your being hit with the comb on the Mesa is that your shoulder is so low the rifle has no option but to rise on recoil. Something that places your shoulder a little higher and in line with the bore eliminates a lot of that rise.

If Mesa continued the cheek piece up and had no dip it could be an excellent stock. I’d still prefer a flatter rear and on the bottom. I thought the Mesa I handled, shot and loaded for was a well built stock but it was the worst stock Iv ever shot on a tikka ergonomics wise.

I agree with you on the Altitude's lack of a flat spot on the bottom of the butt stock. Wouldn't take much and would be a great boon for prone shooting, as you described. As it is, I like the Altitude style of stock for a rig that gets carried a lot and is well capable of long range over a pack or solid rest, but will also be used often in closer, quick aim, no - or improvised rest scenarios, so lack of a flat spot isn't a deal breaker. I find some of the long range centric stock designs to be limiting for closer range, quick aim shooting. Compromises, of course, but we're lucky to be in a day when there's so many choices.

Like you, I've also owned and used a lot of stock designs side by side. Physics certainly plays a large role in how recoil is transferred through a stock, and I don't disagree with your opinions on barrel/comb alignment, but to certain extents it largely comes down to shooter build and, by extension, personal preferences. I don't care one bit for a standard Sporter style stocks; and I've had dozens of both OEM and aftermarket.

Without the comb being high enough or the stock dropping lower to fit my shoulder, it takes me longer to get behind the scope for fast shots, while not being able to establish a good cheek weld hurts my long range shooting and subjects my cheek bones to more effects from recoil. For my body build, a Monte Carlo quickly aligns the cheek piece on my face and the butt stock on just the right place down in my shoulder crease. If the bore is aligned with the comb, the fact that the comb doesn't extend all the way back isn't of consequence for me, but I can see it being a deal breaker if that area is what aligns on the shooter's shoulder.

 

[z987k]

Right, I don't really want a monte carlo stock, this gun is right around 8.25lbs and I can sport the shots since the silencer takes a lot of the blast and recoil away. It also has a limbsaver on it which might help a bit.

If you want to shave some weight and have a plethora of options look at MPI or pendleton.

I like my wildcat on my tikka. My tikka is 6lb 12.9oz with the scope on it. Another 9.5oz with the suppressor.

 

[Balderdash]

That is easily solved with a comb height adjustment- in the stock or a pad. However, I have yet to see a single person shoot the exact same rifle with a Mesa better or even as well as the same rifle in a better designed stock from field positions.




A lot, and it only takes about ten rounds to see it. The Mess makes spotting one’s own shots a very low probability.






This isn’t a “I like, I think, I feel” it is a 100% statement of fact and applies to everyone, everywhere baring some extreme injury- the Mesa is one of the poorest stock designs on the market for every reason that Lawnboi stated. It is a mechanical fact that it increases muzzle rise during recoil which makes felt or perceived recoil go up, cheek slap happen, and loss of sight picture during recoil. The underside of the butt being so sloped makes the rifle slide out of position on a rest and further increases muzzle rise and cheek slap.


I have shot a lot of rounds through Mesa’s, I’ve videod through the scope, and compared them directly to other stocks on the same rifles- during recoil the Mesa has around 2-4 times as much muzzle movement for the same shooter and rifle and a properly designed stock of the same weight.

Not my intent to start a contentious back and forth. Through the years I've always respected your opinion and, perhaps more importantly, the way in which you've expressed it.

From your posts, it appears that you've shot and witnessed a lot of rounds by a lot of shooters with a lot of different stocks, thus fostering a well developed sense of what works and what doesn't. I don't lightly or summarily disregard your observations on the matter; however, I shoot enough with enough different stocks and rifles to know what works for me.

I'm not stating that the mesa is the best designed stock out there, just that I use one and that I find it to suit my physical build and expectations for the rig it's on.

A quick observation on a Monte Carlo design effectuating more muzzle jump and felt recoil by mechanical default: This is the case if the top of the recoil pad is in a position to be the pivot point on the shoulder. The extent to which this will be the case differs with comb design and physical idiosyncracies of the shooter. I've shot many thousands of rounds of clays with several stock designs. Likewise, I've witnessed a large number of shots by others. While the phenomenon you describe is of course very real, it's been my experience that a well fitted Monte Carlo stock with a straight comb that's positioned correctly to the bore does not increase muzzle jump and felt recoil as a matter of course.

 

[Formidilosus]

however, I shoot enough with enough different stocks and rifles to know what works for me.
I'm not stating that the mesa is the best designed stock out there, just that I use one and that I find it to suit my physical build and expectations for the rig it's on.

100%. Not my intent to say that you don’t like it or that it won’t shoot- just the mechanical side of it.

A quick observation on a Monte Carlo design effectuating more muzzle jump and felt recoil by mechanical default: This is the case if the top of the recoil pad is in a position to be the pivot point on the shoulder. The extent to which this will be the case differs with comb design and physical idiosyncracies of the shooter. I've shot many thousands of rounds of clays with several stock designs. Likewise, I've witnessed a large number of shots by others. While the phenomenon you describe is of course very real, it's been my experience that a well fitted Monte Carlo stock with a straight comb that's positioned correctly to the bore does not increase muzzle jump and felt recoil as a matter of course.

Sorry, I didn’t mean that Monte Carlo cheek pieces itself cause muzzle rise, just that pad height in relation to bore does.

 

[Rooggvc]

Just a reference for you weight wise. The McMillian Game Hunter I have weighs 34oz without the bottom metal installed.

 

[Lawnboi]

I agree with you on the Altitude's lack of a flat spot on the bottom of the butt stock. Wouldn't take much and would be a great boon for prone shooting, as you described. As it is, I like the Altitude style of stock for a rig that gets carried a lot and is well capable of long range over a pack or solid rest, but will also be used often in closer, quick aim, no - or improvised rest scenarios, so lack of a flat spot isn't a deal breaker. I find some of the long range centric stock designs to be limiting for closer range, quick aim shooting. Compromises, of course, but we're lucky to be in a day when there's so many choices.

Like you, I've also owned and used a lot of stock designs side by side. Physics certainly plays a large role in how recoil is transferred through a stock, and I don't disagree with your opinions on barrel/comb alignment, but to certain extents it largely comes down to shooter build and, by extension, personal preferences. I don't care one bit for a standard Sporter style stocks; and I've had dozens of both OEM and aftermarket.

Without the comb being high enough or the stock dropping lower to fit my shoulder, it takes me longer to get behind the scope for fast shots, while not being able to establish a good cheek weld hurts my long range shooting and subjects my cheek bones to more effects from recoil. For my body build, a Monte Carlo quickly aligns the cheek piece on my face and the butt stock on just the right place down in my shoulder crease. If the bore is aligned with the comb, the fact that the comb doesn't extend all the way back isn't of consequence for me, but I can see it being a deal breaker if that area is what aligns on the shooter's shoulder.

If you like it that’s all that matters.

That said a flat bottom rides any rear support better. You can get away with alot prone, up off the ground using a pack or whatever on the back the parallel to the bore flat on the back end makes spotting shots much easier. It’s not just for prone long range oriented stocks.

Generally ‘long range designed’ stocks being hard to shoot quickly is utter bull. It easier for me to get on a target quickly with my eh1 as it is a mesa. Similar rear grip, similar comb… it’s the same thing without the flaws pointed out above. I’m not comparing a chassis or bigger tactical stock, we are comparing ~30oz hunting stock to hunting stock. I have tried and cannot find any place that I think a traditional design is better. Again is it good enough? Sure, but options are out there that make things easier. On top of that I’d hope the industry can push manufacturers to continue to create stocks that make things easier for a hunter.


Totally understand body type requiring some kind of cheek support. Many stocks do whether it be an adjustable cheek piece or design, without dropping the pad at the heel. The comb dropping at the heel should be a huge deal for an individual planning on spotting their hits, or wanting an easier stock to manage under recoil. Closer to bore line recoil pads make it easier. Generally I can get along with about anything, but through my search similar to the OP, Iv found what makes things easier, and makes things harder

Not meant to be argumentative, just pointing out my view having spent a lot of time behind a lot of the stocks mentioned in this thread. Have you tried an eh1, alpine hunter or krg bravo? Similar design to the Mesa without the drop at the heel. The comb height is essentially the same on all of those stocks.

Compared to an even more adjustable chassis I’m actually moving the recoil pad up more in line, cheek piece gets placed in a position of comfort, but that pad behind the bore makes that recoil generally go straight back and not up.

 

[ElPollo]

I have an Allterra carbon hunter stock that I like very much, but they aren’t offering them currently.

I had a discussion with Alterra in Sept. and they were hoping to be back online with aftermarket stocks in late 4th quarter of this year. I like their stocks and am waiting for one for my Tikka 300 WSM.

 

[Antares]

What are you planning on going with for the comb riser? I have a Tikka T3X Lite on order and am looking into the add-ons rather that dropping $600-800 on a stock right away.

Titan Universal

The factory T3x stock is a little too narrow for it, but you just need to shim the sides of the riser with some material.

 

[JohnyRingo]

I love my McMillan Game Scout on my 243. It fits my hands and my form perfectly. I am putting the Game Scout on all my rifles.

 

[Macintosh]

.....

I'm not stating that the mesa is the best designed stock out there, just that I use one and that I find it to suit my physical build and expectations for the rig it's on.

A quick observation on a Monte Carlo design effectuating more muzzle jump and felt recoil by mechanical default: This is the case if the top of the recoil pad is in a position to be the pivot point on the shoulder. The extent to which this will be the case differs with comb design and physical idiosyncracies of the shooter. I've shot many thousands of rounds of clays with several stock designs. Likewise, I've witnessed a large number of shots by others. While the phenomenon you describe is of course very real, it's been my experience that a well fitted Monte Carlo stock with a straight comb that's positioned correctly to the bore does not increase muzzle jump and felt recoil as a matter of course.

This is the same as a competition shotgun with a 4"-high rib and raised comb--sounds like that's your world too--and also an AR with a raised sight or optic. on a rifle it'll be a raised comb with higher rings, but the actual stock and butt-pad in-line with the bore as you stated, but I dont think that is the mesa stock. The solution is not to move the whole gun up from the shoulder in order to meet the face and eye (which is effectively what many monte-carlo stocks incl mesa do), the solution is to leave the whole gun closer in-line with the shoulder for straight-line recoil impulse, and raise only the cheek and the scope. Some monte carlo designs do accomplish that, but very few of the ones I've used on hunting rifles do. Sometime try adding 1/2" or more of hard foam taped onto a higher-combed straight stock and use higher rings to get proper scope alignment--you'll find the erect head/neck and cheek weld you want, eye is better aligned looking straight ahead to acquire and hold a fast focus, but with the recoil still in-line with your shoulder so the muzzle flips way less under recoil and felt-recoil is way less.

 

[Blaw]

I have an Allterra carbon hunter stock that I like very much, but they aren’t offering them currently. I just received a Stockys next Gen Carbon VG for a howa mini and I really like it. Ergonomics are great, good grip, cheekweld and no drop at the heel. I bought a “factory second” at a discounted price and it could use a little cosmetic work in a few spots, but I could easily use it as is. Very good value for the price.

I will probably end up ordering another for a 300wsm tikka build I’m putting together. I probably have another month wait on the barrel, so I’ll wait and see about an Allterra popping up in the meantime, but I would be happy with another Stocky’s Carbon VG.


Advertised weight on the stockys Carbon VG mini stock was 20oz and my kitchen scale said 20.5oz

The stockys carbon VG for tikka is advertised at 23oz


Photo on the Stocky’s Carbon VG on the Mini:

I just got one for my tikka, weighs 21.9oz

 

[Ram94]

I just got one for my tikka, weighs 21.9oz

How was the fit? Do they have pillars installed?