Help, is my barrel shot?

[Pacific_Fork]

Gun info:
Nosler M48 Liberty
Vortex HSLR 4-16x 1/2 MOA turret
6.5x284 Norma
Nosler 120 Ballistic Tip 3100 FPS

This gun used to group a lot better. Ive made one shot kills on deer at 486 and 400 yards, numerous elk and a moose under 200, etc all with the Nosler 120 E-tips. Since trying different hand loads over the last couple years (127 Barnes LRX and 120 E-tips) my barrel has seen roughly 800-1000 rounds with MV's of 2900-3100 on average. Long story but still have not found the correct hand load my friend has been trying to make for me, something has been off. I am trying to hunt with this rifle again this year and at 100 yards I can get MOA with the nosler BTs but at 300 and 400 its like a damn shotgun pattern with some 5-7 inch groups PLUS shooting way right. Bench rest and stable environment conditions this past weekend at 9100 ft elevation. I have throughly cleaned copper fouling and re mounted/leveled my scope and that hasnt helped thus far. Is my barrel shot? Or something else? I am in full blown panic mode as rifle season is approaching quickly and being proficient with my rifle for ethical kills is most important to me. I want to put a proof research barrel on my gun but they are on back order till Fall. I am about to buy a brand new rifle either CA or fierce fury in a 6.5 CM (I love my 284 norma but finding ammunition is becoming impossible) because I am stressing out so much haha... Help fellow Roksliders! First pic is berger 140s at 100 yards (not sub 1" MOA), the rest with the nosler 120 BTs

 

[Bubblehide]

Start with the basics. Borescope the barrel, check the scope mounting, screws (pull and replace the screws to be sure one or more are not snapped. Pull the barreled action and clean everything.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Start with the basics. Borescope the barrel, check the scope mounting, screws (pull and replace the screws to be sure one or more are not snapped. Pull the barreled action and clean everything.

I did all of that, a local smith borescoped the barrel for me and just said to clean it and didnt notice anything else off. BUT I do not fully trust this guy to know what he is doing. I was going to buy my own bore scope but I wouldnt know what I am looking at. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Bubblehide]

Where are you located. Maybe I or someone here can borescope it for you. Actually I have a lighted camera for that, with a large viewing screen.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Check scope mounting. Check scope tracking. Verify you haven’t introduced parallax on the reticle.

Parallax can be much tougher to get fully ironed out than most guys think and it causes misses like this very often. Also depends greatly on the exact scope.

If your scope passes on the tests move on to diagnosing the rifle further.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Around Monterey CA, spend time in N. Ca and along the sierras a lot.

As far as the parallax, my scope has this adjustment and it never seemed to be an issue before. But look at those groups at 300 and 400. Making no adjustments on the scope and shooting from a bench rest aiming dead center each shot, doesnt seem right?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Around Monterey CA, spend time in N. Ca and along the sierras a lot.

As far as the parallax, my scope has this adjustment and it never seemed to be an issue before. But look at those groups at 300 and 400. Making no adjustments on the scope and shooting from a bench rest aiming dead center each shot, doesnt seem right?

1 MOA at 400 yards is over 4”....

Let me look at your post with more detail when I get back to my laptop from lunch. My phone is being stupid. I’m up in the Altamont hills on 200 acres north of you about 2 hours. We could try to take a look for you.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Awesome thanks for your time. Take notice the 6" at both 300 and 400, and why its shooting center at 100 and 3-6" right at distance. Little to no wind.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

1) Change ammo and see if the issue still persists. What do those Bergers do at 300 - 400 yards?
2) Have someone else shoot it and see if the issue still persists.
3) Check your scope for tracking. I had a rifle that was spot on to 600 yards. Came back from the hunt and it was off. It was still dead nuts accurate at 200 yards but for each 100 yards of distance it would go down about 1" and to the right about 1".
4) Ensure your screws are torqued properly and evenly. Should be good already but...
5) Clean until the patches are white as snow. Both regular solvent and copper solvent. Should be good already but...
6) Throw a different scope on it and see if the issue still persists.
7) How much time are you giving your rifle between shots? Not just for this batch of troubleshooting but overall?

 

[Corvus Corax]

I would be very surprised to hear that you barrel is shot out. Nosler uses Pacnor barrels, which are generally considered a pretty good barrel. Start with simple stuff. Scope actually holding zero? Mounting hardware properly torqued? Action screws torqued properly (40-45 in/lbs in front 35-40 in/lbs in rear)? Barrel crown not damaged? Then other variables in the the load.

 

[Bubblehide]

I am in Northern LA if you get down this way.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

1) Change ammo and see if the issue still persists. What do those Bergers do at 300 - 400 yards?
2) Have someone else shoot it and see if the issue still persists.
3) Check your scope for tracking. I had a rifle that was spot on to 600 yards. Came back from the hunt and it was off. It was still dead nuts accurate at 200 yards but for each 100 yards of distance it would go down about 1" and to the right about 1".
4) Ensure your screws are torqued properly and evenly. Should be good already but...
5) Clean until the patches are white as snow. Both regular solvent and copper solvent. Should be good already but...
6) Throw a different scope on it and see if the issue still persists.
7) How much time are you giving your rifle between shots? Not just for this batch of troubleshooting but overall?

1) I havent shot the Bergers at that range, but many different hand loads and bullets. Same results, I thought it was the hand loads which is why I went back to factory.
2) Could try that
3) Im wondering about the scope tracking issue as I have heard this happens especially with the lower tier vortex I have on. BUT how would this effect POI of my groups? I understand it would just make your ballistics off at whatever range.
4) Done that with my torque wrench
5) Done that
6) Want to try this, might by a NF or....so many options
7) 2-3 mintues for the first 3 rounds, then around 5 mins after that between each round. My barrel gets hot fast

 

[Pacific_Fork]

I would be very surprised to hear that you barrel is shot out. Nosler uses Pacnor barrels, which are generally considered a pretty good barrel. Start with simple stuff. Scope actually holding zero? Mounting hardware properly torqued? Action screws torqued properly (40-45 in/lbs in front 35-40 in/lbs in rear)? Barrel crown not damaged? Then other variables in the the load.

Right but with around 1,000 rounds through the barrel wouldnt it be entirely possible its shot out?

 

[ericF]

Buy a Teslong bore scope from amazon for $50 dollars. That will tell you whether you are having issues with copper fouling, carbon ring, etc. You can compare against a good shooter rifle without having to know what you are looking at. 5-6 inches at 300 to 400 yards isn't outside the bounds of normal shooting with the affects of weather conditions, wind, etc, but the way to the right is much more concerning. I'd start with a tall target test to see if the scope is canted. The basic of this is to shoot at 100 with your normal load, then dial up to the top and shoot a couple, and then dial down to the bottom and shoot a couple. You could roughly confirm dial sensitivity, but it could still be 10% off, but this will moreso tell you whether you have a scope issue if the top group is to the right, and the bottom group is to the left.

 

[Corvus Corax]

It’s not entirely outside the realm of possibility with a cartridge That has a lot of overbore like yours, but groups don’t typically just go to hell all of the sudden. It’s more gradual and you eventually start to see more and more groups outside your acceptable level of accuracy.

 

[Bubblehide]

Vortex is not known for reliability. Pull the scope off and put it on a rifle that you know shoots very well, and rule that scope in or out as the problem.

 

[isItFallYet]

Make sure that your barrel is still free floating. See if you can slide a dollar bill between the barrel and stock unobstructed. Maybe check the bedding.

 

[Dana]

You should have some life left in that barrel. Seating depth (chasing the lands) should be practiced as the throat erodes over time and round count. As mentioned above make sure your scope is properly vertical as this alone can cause long range shots to do what you described. The use of a bubble to shoot with takes more human error out of this too. Good luck with this...Dana

 

[hodgeman]

I'd doubt your barrel is done at 1000 rounds. I'd much more suspect the scope or mounts.

As mentioned, barrels tend to go slowly not all of a sudden. Also, it doesn't take much wind to move a bullet 5" at 400 yards.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Update:

Regardless if my barrel was already shot out (which turns out it was not) I wanted a proof carbon barrel anyways. The barrel just needed a serious cleaning job of copper fouling. I didn't do a good enough job cleaning my barrel, but my gunsmith did and now the factory barrel is like new. Anyways I also put a Nightforce Atacr 4-16x50 and zeiss rings on it. Shooting lights out! I love the carbon wrapped barrel because of how much I can shoot at the range without the barrel heating up. Thanks for the replies fellas.