Heavy Bolt lift on Tikka 6.5

[Ucsdryder]

Regale us with your experience and what you have learned by not cleaning barrels or suppressors- how many different barrels, what cartridges, what were the true cone sizes, and how was the zero retention long term? Same for suppressors- how many have you not cleaned for an extended round count?





No one has-

“told people in the past it’s a figment of their imagination and there is never a reason to clean any rifle”

Sure…I’ll give you an easy one.

Didn’t clean my suppressor for 100 or so rounds, took it on an elk hunt. It was not an easy one where it rides on the back seat, but it’s strapped to my pack, barrel up, hiking over deadfall, then down an avalanche chute. When I got to where I wanted to set up, I couldn’t chamber a round. All my reloads are bumper .003” in a tikka action. When I got home, I cleaned my rifle and found carbon flakes. They fell out of the suppressor and into the action.

Moral of story, clean your shit. Nothing bad comes out of cleaning, but not cleaning can have catastrophic consequences on a back country hunt.

I will admit, my mind is blown right now that you’re saying that you don’t preach not cleaning rifles. I just don’t understand your angle here…

 

[Jake Larsen]

You said that you switched boxes, was it the same lot # of ammo?

I have seen lots vary by almost 200fps.

This seems like a likely cause. Would be interesting to see some chrono data.

I’ve had this sort of pressure spiking happen when I’m running a hand load really close to max pressure. Most of the time is fine, then every once in a while you get a heavy bolt lift/ejector swipe on the brass. But I doubt factory ammo would be running close enough to max for that issue.


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[The Guide]

Sure…I’ll give you an easy one.

Didn’t clean my suppressor for 100 or so rounds, took it on an elk hunt. It was not an easy one where it rides on the back seat, but it’s strapped to my pack, barrel up, hiking over deadfall, then down an avalanche chute. When I got to where I wanted to set up, I couldn’t chamber a round. All my reloads are bumper .003” in a tikka action. When I got home, I cleaned my rifle and found carbon flakes. They fell out of the suppressor and into the action.

Moral of story, clean your shit. Nothing bad comes out of cleaning, but not cleaning can have catastrophic consequences on a back country hunt.

I will admit, my mind is blown right now that you’re saying that you don’t preach not cleaning rifles. I just don’t understand your angle here…

I'm pretty good at following what has been discussed and I believe the mantra has been as follows...

Don't clean UNLESS YOU ARE HAVING ISSUES, then clean it to bare metal and start over again. Note how many rounds it took before you had issues and clean it before that point next time.

I don't fell that anybody has said, "Never clean your gun ever in your ownership". Heck, you should run a solvent patch down the barrel before you ever shoot it. Other than that, why clean it if it isn't causing you issues?

In your case, why do you leave your suppressor attached? I'm seriously asking. I don't see mine as a barrel extension to leave on for long periods of time. For starters, my rifle cases and gun safe wouldn't fit most of my guns with my suppressor attached and Secondly, with the suppressor on they are too long to ride in my truck. I guess if you have a short barrel and Rockset the suppressor in place I could see it but your issue came from the suppressor not the barrel.

Jay

 

[Formidilosus]

Sure…I’ll give you an easy one.

Didn’t clean my suppressor for 100 or so rounds,

100 rounds? So half what lots of matches are in a single day?

Didn’t we have this discussion about this rifle before?

took it on an elk hunt. It was not an easy one where it rides on the back seat, but it’s strapped to my pack, barrel up, hiking over deadfall, then down an avalanche chute

I’m not sure what “it was not an easy” hunt has to do with anything? What does “strapped to a pack”, “hiking “over dead fall and down an avalanche chute” have to do with a suppressor?

. When I got to where I wanted to set up, I couldn’t chamber a round. All my reloads are bumper .003” in a tikka action. When I got home, I cleaned my rifle and found carbon flakes. They fell out of the suppressor and into the action.

If this is the one from a while ago, the answer is the same now as it was then.

Moral of story, clean your shit. Nothing bad comes out of cleaning,

That you believe that 100 rounds suppressed stopped a gun from chambering rounds, and that there isn’t something wrong with your chamber or reloads is interesting. If a flake of carbon causes the ammo to hit chamber- what will water on the cases do when it’s raining?

but not cleaning can have catastrophic consequences on a back country hunt.

You come to this belief by your one hunt, with one rifle, with reloads that aren’t sized correctly/a chamber too tight, that had fired an astronomically high 100 rounds, and was strapped to a pack?

That isn’t “experience”. That should be an average Tuesday morning.

I will admit, my mind is blown right now that you’re saying that you don’t preach not cleaning rifles. I just don’t understand your angle here…

? What are you talking about here? Be specific- where in this thread have I said anything about cleaning or not cleaning a rifles barrel?


The only angle I have is that I don’t talk about things that I have little experience in, I don’t make sweeping statements based on 3 mags worth of shooting, nor make statements that I am not positive of the outcome if tested on demand on front of you.

An example:

S2H had 7 rental rifles that were 100% suppressed fired this year by 21 students and 7-8 others. Each rifle had a minimum of 1,000 to 1,500 rounds on them from April to August. There were over 30 Rokslide members that shot them, or watched them shot. Not one barrel or suppressor was cleaned. A minimum of than 20,000 suppressed rounds without cleaning, and zero issues with the barrel or chamber from it.


That’s starting to be data.

 

[Formidilosus]

This seems like a likely cause. Would be interesting to see some chrono data.

I’ve had this sort of pressure spiking happen when I’m running a hand load really close to max pressure. Most of the time is fine, then every once in a while you get a heavy bolt lift/ejector swipe on the brass. But I doubt factory ammo would be running close enough to max for that issue.

In back to back lot numbers of Hornday 6.5cm ELD-M’s match we had a difference of almost 200 fps higher MV, with the resulting issues one would expect from nearly 6.5 PRC muzzle velocities.

I’m sure some would have said it was the dreaded “donut”.

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm pretty good at following what has been discussed and I believe the mantra has been as follows...

Don't clean UNLESS YOU ARE HAVING ISSUES, then clean it to bare metal and start over again. Note how many rounds it took before you had issues and clean it before that point next time.

I don't fell that anybody has said, "Never clean your gun ever in your ownership". Heck, you should run a solvent patch down the barrel before you ever shoot it. Other than that, why clean it if it isn't causing you issues?

In your case, why do you leave your suppressor attached? I'm seriously asking. I don't see mine as a barrel extension to leave on for long periods of time. For starters, my rifle cases and gun safe wouldn't fit most of my guns with my suppressor attached and Secondly, with the suppressor on they are too long to ride in my truck. I guess if you have a short barrel and Rockset the suppressor in place I could see it but your issue came from the suppressor not the barrel.

Jay

His issue came from getting cute with the chamber and reloads, not a suppressor.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I'm pretty good at following what has been discussed and I believe the mantra has been as follows...

Don't clean UNLESS YOU ARE HAVING ISSUES, then clean it to bare metal and start over again. Note how many rounds it took before you had issues and clean it before that point next time.

I don't fell that anybody has said, "Never clean your gun ever in your ownership". Heck, you should run a solvent patch down the barrel before you ever shoot it. Other than that, why clean it if it isn't causing you issues?

In your case, why do you leave your suppressor attached? I'm seriously asking. I don't see mine as a barrel extension to leave on for long periods of time. For starters, my rifle cases and gun safe wouldn't fit most of my guns with my suppressor attached and Secondly, with the suppressor on they are too long to ride in my truck. I guess if you have a short barrel and Rockset the suppressor in place I could see it but your issue came from the suppressor not the barrel.

Jay

Personally the last thing I want to do is pull a suppressor on and off a rifle. I now clean my rifle and suppressor at the beginning of rifle seasons, foul the barrel and go hunt. I’ll clean as needed after that.

I personally see no advantage to seeing how dirty I can get a rifle. What’s the purpose? If a guy is so busy he doesn’t have 20 minutes to clean a rifle, I guess that would be a valid reason, but that’s not reality.

I shared an example of an issue from not cleaning a rifle/suppressor. Thats all I need to prove that going extreme, the new fad, isn’t for me.

 

[Ucsdryder]

His issue came from getting cute with the chamber and reloads, not a suppressor.

Once again the Holy One thinks he knows all, but is wrong.

Carbon flakes fell into the chamber, got jumped into the shoulder and kept the cartridge from loading. Nothing cute, as you try to say. Once again always trying to belittle others for no reason, why are you always so unhappy? Brass was FL sized and bumped .003”. Pretty pedestrian when it comes to reloads.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Here ya go, I even had a picture of the flake that got stuck in the chamber… good luck finding a cartridge that will chamber with that jammed between the shoulder and chamber.

 

[Formidilosus]

Once again the Holy One thinks he knows all, but is wrong.

Only one person with 100 rounds of experience is calling someone else names.

Carbon flakes fell into the chamber, got jumped into the shoulder and kept the cartridge from loading. Nothing cute, as you try to say. Once again being an a hole for no reason, why are you always so unhappy? Brass was FL sized and bumped .003”. Pretty pedestrian when it comes to reloads.

Nothing I’ve written is being an asshole. You are basing what you believe on a ridiculously small sample size- small enough to be meaningless. Anything can happen- a speck of sand can stop a rifle up in a one in a million event.
Weird stuff happens sometimes. Making broad statements and basing behavior on that astronomically low percentage thing is not logical.


You have the rifle. Shoot 100 rounds through it this weekend, smack it around and see what happens.

 

[The Guide]

Here ya go, I even had a picture of the flake that got stuck in the chamber… good luck finding a cartridge that will chamber with that jammed between the shoulder and chamber.

How long is the barrel and what powder were you using? That seems like a lot of unburnt powder but I'm new to suppressors. Just trying to learn, not argue.

Jay

 

[Formidilosus]

Factory T3x barrel with between 4,000 and 4,500 rounds suppressed. Gotta clean it or they won’t work.






Baffles with somewhere around 8,000 centerfire rounds and 5,000’ish rimfire rounds.

 

[Ucsdryder]

How long is the barrel and what powder were you using? That seems like a lot of unburnt powder but I'm new to suppressors. Just trying to learn, not argue.

Jay

20” 7 saum using h1000.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Only one person with 100 rounds of experience is calling someone else names.





Nothing I’ve written is being an asshole. You are basing what you believe on a ridiculously small sample size- small enough to be meaningless. Anything can happen- a speck of sand can stop a rifle up in a one in a million event.
Weird stuff happens sometimes. Making broad statements and basing behavior on that astronomically low percentage thing is not logical.


You have the rifle. Shoot 100 rounds through it this weekend, smack it around and see what happens.

You are, you just don’t realize it. Self awareness, most people have some, but some have none.

Here’s the deal, it happened. It almost cost me a hunt, luckily one of the cartridges that got bumped back a little more closed with significant force and that night I killed a 290” bull.

Based off that experience, why would I not clean my rifle prior to a hunt? Assuming I have the ability to foul the barrel, there’s no downside to cleaning, but I’ve proven there’s a downside to not cleaning. If I’m plinking away during the summer I don’t bother, but if I have a malfunction I just grab a different rifle.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I mean, @TaperPin has got a point. Don’t clean rifle, don’t clean suppressor, never a reason to do either. Has this philosophy changed? It’s been preached and parroted on here ad nauseam. I admit I stay away from a lot of those types of threads nowadays so maybe I’m wrong!

Have you tried not cleaning for yourself and observed? Or have you parroted what’s been said by 99% of “hunters” and “shooters” for the last 100 years?

I used to clean every 300 rounds or so. Because that’s what was parroted by everyone I talked to. I started not cleaning and observed what happens for myself. I now very rarely clean my guns because I noticed no change in performance long term.

It’s interesting what you can learn by simply just the trying something and seeing what happens.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Have you tried not cleaning for yourself and observed? Or have you parroted what’s been said by 99% of “hunters” and “shooters” for the last 100 years?

I used to clean every 300 rounds or so. Because that’s what was parroted by everyone I talked to. I started not cleaning and observed what happens for myself. I now very rarely clean my guns because I noticed no change in performance long term.

It’s interesting what you can learn by simply just the trying something and seeing what happens.

Keep reading.

I don’t clean based on rounds fired. I clean before season.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Keep reading.

I don’t clean based on rounds fired. I clean before season.

Yeah I just got caught up. Bummer situation you ran into. Did it end up costing you an animal or were you able to get it solved and hunt on?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I also used to clean before season with a caveat being minimum 40-50 rounds through the barrel before hunting. We started to see more rifles “open up” from cleaning than we did leaving them alone, so the routine cleaning stopped. I think checking the gun over before a back country hunt isn’t a bad thing at all. Though, since I switched to only tikka and sakos I really just don’t have finicky crap that happens anymore at all. I honestly just go kill with them and roll on these days.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Yeah I just got caught up. Bummer situation you ran into. Did it end up costing you an animal or were you able to get it solved and hunt on?

There’s the culprit. My wife actually dropped that rifle from chest high on the vortex lht right before the shot. Held zero luckily!

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

There’s the culprit. My wife actually dropped that rifle from chest high on the vortex lht right before the shot. Held zero luckily!
View attachment 777701

Congrats on the bull!

Would you say your handloads and chamber are the root cause of the issue or do you think it’s from not cleaning for 100 rounds?

I have about 6 rifles that get shot minimum 3 days per week average, and another 6 that get shot average 1 day per week minimum. I don’t think any of those guns have been cleaned in 2 years, and 5 of them have had barrel swaps in the last 3-6 months from wearing out due to round count.

Not a single one has had a major malfunction or barrel life “lessened” by not cleaning. Does this mean everyone should not clean ever? I don’t know. Does it mean that a failure at 100 rounds can routinely happen? Not likely based on what I’ve seen, but not impossible.

Heck, in the last 12 months I’ve seen multiple samples of the most expensive bolt actions you can buy, completely fail due to a little bit of blowing dust getting into the action. Multiple times. Crap happens.

Mitigating risk is a smart strategy in my opinion, but I don’t think the use case/result here was totally due to a simple lack of cleaning. The numbers I’ve seen on a dozen guns recently would lead my thinking towards correlation does not imply causation, due to your minimal data set.

Would you agree?