Hammer Loading

[amassi]

Pressure signs after that? Hodgdon data with 123 lists max at 44.8. Curious if you ran out of case volume, hit pressure or both. They list the 44.8 velocity at 2950. If I could squeeze 2900 out of H4350 I think I’d be happy.

Im trying to consolidate powders and stick with H4350 and xbr for everything Iv got. Makes justifying a 8lber easier

The hammer will be considerably longer than the cup n core lead bullet hodgdon used so depending on your throat and mag length you may lose some capacity and pressure out sooner.
For reference barnes max load with the 127 lrx and h4350 is 40.5 gr 24" barrel and 2738 fps.
Theres a hammer time forum with tons of load data but most of those guys had throats cut so they could seat long

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[Lawnboi]

The hammer will be considerably longer than the cup n core lead bullet hodgdon used so depending on your throat and mag length you may lose some capacity and pressure out sooner.
For reference barnes max load with the 127 lrx and h4350 is 40.5 gr 24" barrel and 2738 fps.
Theres a hammer time forum with tons of load data but most of those guys had throats cut so they could seat long

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I get they are longer but in comparison the Berger 140 isn’t much longer at all when compared to a 124 hammer. With the 140 Berger Iv loaded way over 40 grains.

I guess I was just curious as to the varget recommendations when in theory H4350 should produce some more speed.

Dosnt help Iv been looking for varget forever.

I guess I’ll have to grab 15 to do some measurements with

 

[nubrun]

I get they are longer but in comparison the Berger 140 isn’t much longer at all when compared to a 124 hammer. With the 140 Berger Iv loaded way over 40 grains.

I guess I was just curious as to the varget recommendations when in theory H4350 should produce some more speed.

Dosnt help Iv been looking for varget forever.

I guess I’ll have to grab 15 to do some measurements with

H4350 is slower burning then varget and therefore requires more powder. With the longer lighter hammer bullets you run out of case capacity.

For example here are some quickload runs. Notice the Fill %. In my experience I usually end up in the "do not load" areas, but you can still only compress so much powder in a case.

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264,121,HV 291 GS Custom
Useable Case Capaci: 46.575 grain H2O = 3.024 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350 *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.667% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-06.7 100 42.00 2806 2116 46152 8296 95.7 1.318
-06.0 101 42.30 2826 2146 47262 8352 96.0 1.304
-05.3 101 42.60 2847 2178 48396 8406 96.3 1.291
-04.7 102 42.90 2867 2209 49557 8459 96.6 1.278
-04.0 103 43.20 2888 2240 50745 8511 96.8 1.265
-03.3 104 43.50 2908 2272 51960 8561 97.1 1.252
-02.7 104 43.80 2928 2304 53203 8610 97.3 1.240
-02.0 105 44.10 2948 2336 54476 8657 97.5 1.227 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 106 44.40 2969 2368 55778 8703 97.7 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 106 44.70 2989 2400 57111 8747 97.9 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 45.00 3009 2433 58476 8790 98.1 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 108 45.30 3029 2465 59873 8831 98.3 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
+01.3 109 45.60 3049 2498 61304 8871 98.5 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 109 45.90 3069 2531 62769 8909 98.7 1.156 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.7 110 46.20 3089 2564 64270 8946 98.8 1.144 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.3 111 46.50 3109 2598 65808 8981 99.0 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264,121,HV 291 GS Custom
Useable Case Capaci: 46.575 grain H2O = 3.024 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.714% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-07.1 94 39.00 2872 2217 51123 8068 99.7 1.264
-06.4 95 39.30 2892 2247 52338 8106 99.8 1.251
-05.7 95 39.60 2912 2278 53579 8143 99.8 1.239
-05.0 96 39.90 2931 2308 54847 8178 99.9 1.226 ! Near Maximum !
-04.3 97 40.20 2950 2339 56142 8211 99.9 1.214 ! Near Maximum !
-03.6 98 40.50 2970 2370 57466 8242 100.0 1.202 ! Near Maximum !
-02.9 98 40.80 2989 2400 58819 8272 100.0 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 99 41.10 3008 2431 60201 8300 100.0 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 100 41.40 3027 2462 61614 8327 100.0 1.168 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 100 41.70 3046 2493 63058 8353 100.0 1.156 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 101 42.00 3065 2524 64534 8378 100.0 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 102 42.30 3084 2555 66044 8404 100.0 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4 103 42.60 3103 2586 67587 8429 100.0 1.124 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1 103 42.90 3121 2618 69165 8454 100.0 1.113 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.9 104 43.20 3140 2649 70779 8478 100.0 1.103 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6 105 43.50 3158 2680 72430 8503 100.0 1.092 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[Lawnboi]

Appreciate the info!

 

[nubrun]

Appreciate the info!

For shits and giggles here is data for XBR. I think it might be a better choice than H4350 here.

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264,121,HV 291 GS Custom
Useable Case Capaci: 46.746 grain H2O = 3.035 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.732% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-07.3 88 38.00 2904 2321 53410 8033 100.0 1.243
-06.6 89 38.30 2923 2352 54655 8066 100.0 1.231 ! Near Maximum !
-05.9 90 38.60 2942 2383 55925 8098 100.0 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
-05.1 90 38.90 2961 2413 57222 8129 100.0 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
-04.4 91 39.20 2979 2444 58545 8161 100.0 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
-03.7 92 39.50 2998 2475 59895 8192 100.0 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
-02.9 92 39.80 3017 2505 61273 8223 100.0 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 93 40.10 3035 2536 62680 8254 100.0 1.161 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.5 94 40.40 3054 2567 64116 8285 100.0 1.150 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.7 94 40.70 3072 2598 65582 8315 100.0 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 95 41.00 3090 2629 67079 8345 100.0 1.129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.7 96 41.30 3109 2661 68607 8375 100.0 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.5 97 41.60 3127 2692 70167 8404 100.0 1.108 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.2 97 41.90 3145 2723 71760 8433 100.0 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.9 98 42.20 3163 2755 73388 8462 100.0 1.087 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.7 99 42.50 3181 2786 75050 8491 100.0 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[Cahunter805]

I get they are longer but in comparison the Berger 140 isn’t much longer at all when compared to a 124 hammer. With the 140 Berger Iv loaded way over 40 grains.

I guess I was just curious as to the varget recommendations when in theory H4350 should produce some more speed.

Dosnt help Iv been looking for varget forever.

I guess I’ll have to grab 15 to do some measurements with

Another factor besides the length is the bearing surface of the hammer vs other bullets.
I would just load up a ladder test and find your rifles max and where your node ends up.

 

[Lawnboi]

Cross my fingers that by next spring when it’s time to work up a hunting load I can find a pound or two of varget.

 

[wind gypsy]

H4350 is slower burning then varget and therefore requires more powder. With the longer lighter hammer bullets you run out of case capacity.

For example here are some quickload runs. Notice the Fill %. In my experience I usually end up in the "do not load" areas, but you can still only compress so much powder in a case.

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264,121,HV 291 GS Custom
Useable Case Capaci: 46.575 grain H2O = 3.024 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350 *T

Most aren't limited to 2.800" in COAL. Does the COAL input factor into case fill % in quick load? I wonder what it would show with H4350 with 2.90 or 2.95 COAL.

 

[nubrun]

Most aren't limited to 2.800" in COAL. Does the COAL input factor into case fill % in quick load? I wonder what it would show with H4350 with 2.90 or 2.95 COAL.

Sure- I used 2.8” to be conservative. Quickload does take the COAL into account for the case fill.

 

[nubrun]

Most aren't limited to 2.800" in COAL. Does the COAL input factor into case fill % in quick load? I wonder what it would show with H4350 with 2.90 or 2.95 COAL.

Here is the output for a COAL of 2.95". To load at that COAL the barrel will likely need to be throated.

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264,121,HV 291 GS Custom
Useable Case Capaci: 48.825 grain H2O = 3.170 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.950 inch = 74.93 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350 *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.652% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-06.5 98 43.00 2812 2177 44658 8864 95.6 1.328
-05.9 98 43.30 2832 2208 45674 8925 95.9 1.315
-05.2 99 43.60 2852 2239 46713 8985 96.1 1.302
-04.6 100 43.90 2872 2271 47774 9044 96.4 1.289
-03.9 100 44.20 2892 2302 48857 9101 96.7 1.277
-03.3 101 44.50 2912 2334 49964 9157 96.9 1.264
-02.6 102 44.80 2932 2366 51095 9212 97.1 1.252
-02.0 102 45.10 2952 2399 52250 9265 97.3 1.240
-01.3 103 45.40 2971 2431 53431 9317 97.6 1.228
-00.7 104 45.70 2991 2464 54637 9367 97.8 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 46.00 3011 2496 55870 9416 98.0 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 105 46.30 3031 2529 57130 9464 98.1 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
+01.3 106 46.60 3051 2562 58418 9510 98.3 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 107 46.90 3070 2595 59735 9555 98.5 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
+02.6 107 47.20 3090 2629 61082 9598 98.7 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
+03.3 108 47.50 3110 2662 62459 9640 98.8 1.148 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 46.00 3146 2725 66880 9245 100.0 1.119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 46.00 2828 2202 45254 9134 92.0 1.317

 

[wyosam]

Anyone have some speeds with a 6.5cm 124 hammer and H4350 yet? I’d like to give them a go but I’m not going to find enough varget to justify it at this point

I get about 2800 out of tikka that tends to run slow. Think I was just under 42 Gr, but it’s been a while since I loaded those. Varget or RL16 get me 2875-2900.


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[Lawnboi]

I guess I’ll just need to get some measurements when my rifle arrives back from Hells canyon. I didn’t want to limit myself chambering it specifically for an expensive mono. Iv got a mile of mag space if the throat will take it.

 

[eoperator]

6.5cm 22"sammi 124 hammer
prime brass
h4350 44gr
win large std
2950fps labradar
pressure at 44.5gr

 

[19 Badger]

Anyone had a chance to try out their new "absolute hunter" design yet?

Did a little testing with 109's with Varget and IMR 8208 xbr

Anyone had a chance to try out their new "absolute hunter" design yet?

 

[Runningwater]

I'm not very familiar with 6.5 CM ballistics. Were you getting the extra velocity they are touting?

 

[nubrun]

I'm not very familiar with 6.5 CM ballistics. Were you getting the extra velocity they are touting?

I’m exceeding the velocity that hammer touted. I am just under 3,250 with the 110. I think they tout that at around 3,200.


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[19 Badger]

I'm not very familiar with 6.5 CM ballistics. Were you getting the extra velocity they are touting?

I achieved 3225 safely before I hit pressure. Had better accuracy with my proven loads with 110's @ 3115 and Varget. Gonna run that till I get a faster twist and a 26" barrel.

 

[Runningwater]

Gosh I wouldn't think you'd need a faster twist with those light bullets. Then again I'm old school - I've never shot lighter than 139's in my Swede.

 

[19 Badger]

Gosh I wouldn't think you'd need a faster twist with those light bullets. Then again I'm old school - I've never shot lighter than 139's in my Swede.

I don't need a 8tw for the 110's, but I am going to move up to the 124 or 131. A little extra twist rarely hurts... I just got off the phone with Mike @ Hells Canyon and got the barrel ordered.

 

[KClark]

I achieved 3225 safely before I hit pressure. Had better accuracy with my proven loads with 110's @ 3115 and Varget. Gonna run that till I get a faster twist and a 26" barrel.

Did you set it at 2.700 COAL because of magazine length or bullet in the neck length?