Hammer bullets

[Fotis]

Nothing wrong with hammers.

 

[rootacres]

How many of you use or used the Hammer bullets? I’m loading the 143 hh this year for elk in my 7mm. Getting 3390fps and 5/8” groups with them. I’m curious as if they are better then the Barnes line up? I’m not a fan at all of the Barnes form past experience with them. Are these the same or better?

I shot the 143 HH out of my 7mm SAUM last year. I didn't go after elk, I only had a coues tag. I rung mine out to about 3030 fps (22" proof). They hit their mark at 425yds when it mattered. My final dope verification group measured 2 1/4" @ 600 yds for that load. They were incredibly accurate for me. With your speed I wouldn't hesitate to use them on elk. Ive also had good luck on elk with the barnes, however that was with a 300 win mag.

For elk this year I chickened out of using the 143s in favor of using some 168 VLDs. Though Im sure both would do just fine.

 

[Muley Buck]

I guess if I had to shoot copper bullets, I would not want my bullet to break apart like a lead cup and core bullet. I would want it to mushroom as big as possible but keep its mass. Like a Barnes or, better yet, a McGuire bullet.

Genuinely curious as to why you would want one bullet to act or perform one way and the other to act or perform a different way? I guess another way of asking is, why is it good for one bullet to be frangible and one not? Does it just come down to the physical properties of each metal?

 

[huntnful]

Killed 2 deer and 2 elk with them last year. My dad killed a deer and elk with them also. They kill just fine.

 

[deerhunter628]

I shot a whitetail at 100 yards with a 151 grain absolute hammer out of my 308. That deer ran about 50 yards. Hardly any blood trail. It killed the deer so i guess it worked but it didnt work as good as i would have liked. Im not using them anymore. Back to accubonds.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Genuinely curious as to why you would want one bullet to act or perform one way and the other to act or perform a different way? I guess another way of asking is, why is it good for one bullet to be frangible and one not? Does it just come down to the physical properties of each metal?

A non-bonded cup and core lead bullet will break into hundreds of pieces exploding outward, causing serious damage. Hammer Hunters and a few others will break into a few(Hammer) says four and travel in the same direction as the wound channel. IME, these lightweight pieces of copper don't make it very far and "may" cause some damage if they break off at all, especially at longer-range impacts. So then you have a small diameter field point ice picking through an animal. Most of these nasty wound channels you see from Monos are at high speeds at 500 yards or less. If that is your wheel house that's great, it's just not mine. If I have to shoot Monos and I don't WANT to, but the writing is on the wall. I want one with a good BC that opens as wide as possible, making the biggest wound channel as possible without shedding its petal.


There is just no way to make copper bullets act or kill as effectively as a lead cup and core bullet IMO. But I have a few hunts coming up that don't allow lead, and so many of my fellow hunters are already caving to the leaf licker. We will all have to shoot monos soon enough, so I figured I should start testing them now.

 

[ZAK13]

I've only been tinkering with Hammers this year, right now out of my 270 getting 3200fps with the 126gr. and an honest 3000fps out my -06 using 166gr. Accuracy is just under 3/4" with both without trying. Haven't tried them on game yet. On another note have been using Barnes now for a few years and have had great luck with them. Have only recovered 2 bullets from game so far, both mushroomed just like they're supposed too.

 

[Muley Buck]

A non-bonded cup and core lead bullet will break into hundreds of pieces exploding outward, causing serious damage. Hammer Hunters and a few others will break into a few(Hammer) says four and travel in the same direction as the wound channel. IME, these lightweight pieces of copper don't make it very far and "may" cause some damage if they break off at all, especially at longer-range impacts. So then you have a small diameter field point ice picking through an animal. Most of these nasty wound channels you see from Monos are at high speeds at 500 yards or less. If that is your wheel house that's great, it's just not mine. If I have to shoot Monos and I don't WANT to, but the writing is on the wall. I want one with a good BC that opens as wide as possible, making the biggest wound channel as possible without shedding its petal.


There is just no way to make copper bullets act or kill as effectively as a lead cup and core bullet IMO. But I have a few hunts coming up that don't allow lead, and so many of my fellow hunters are already caving to the leaf licker. We will all have to shoot monos soon enough, so I figured I should start testing them now.

Thank you, I completely understand Ryan. It definitely makes sense 500 yds and out. I do use a frangible copper bullet in California because I have to. And yes, I do have to limit my range with them. In my personal small sample size they have worked great on deer sized game out to 430 yds. But, I want to be clear I am not a proponent of copper monos in any way. I definitely prefer a cup/core bullet if I have my choice. I do believe copper monos (no matter what type) are inferior to lead core bullets. Thanks again for your explanation and by the way, I really like the term "leaf licker" I'm gonna use that!

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I get the shedding petals to create wound channels. In my opinion Barnes bullets are not worth using from my experience. Pencil hole in and pencil hole out. I was not impressed with them.

When you previously used them what impact velocity did you have? Pencil out statement makes me think you were hitting with too little velocity.

Barnes: I've killed a few dozen critters with the LRX and TTSX, mostly the 145gr LRX 7mm, I'm shooting them fast and keep the impacts over 2200fps and my experience has been great with them. I personally don't shoot rear lungs for the record either. In almost every instance animals drop on the spot or <100yds.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

They are worse. Google hammer failures. There were several threads on LRH about them. Len probably deletes them because hammer is a sponsor over there. There are better options for elk, do you use monos because the state you live in requires it?

Please expand. What timeframe are we talking about also? I am curious it its the same tiemframe/issue I had.

In my case its because some years back their metal supplier sent them stock that wasn't to spec (too hard) and they didn't realize until bullets were made and shipped out. In my case I was getting minimal expansion and penciling through animals. Once I realized something was wrong and chatted with hammer it was determined my bullets were from that time period and were replaced (main complaint is that should have been a proactive conversation not a reactive one). My buddy shot a doe with the replacement bullets so far and the wound channel was good.

 

[muzz]

When you previously used them what impact velocity did you have? Pencil out statement makes me think you were hitting with too little velocity.

Barnes: I've killed a few dozen critters with the LRX and TTSX, mostly the 145gr LRX 7mm, I'm shooting them fast and keep the impacts over 2200fps and my experience has been great with them. I personally don't shoot rear lungs for the record either. In almost every instance animals drop on the spot or <100yds.

I shot a bull at 80 yards with a 280ai and ttsx. At 80 yards I should have been doing close to still 2900 fps. 3 shots he finally died

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

So then you have a small diameter field point ice picking through an animal.

Not sure if you're saying they don't shed and if not are a field point or still saying they're like a field point even if they shed. In the latter case just to clarify, assuming the pedals came off the premise is the now flat faced bullet shank is like a wad cutter bullet with the flat face pushing a hydrostatic wave outwards rather than a field point cutting through. Not unlike the hard cast flat pointed bullets we use for grizzly, etc.

As I mentioned above I had issues with a hard alloy lot that wasn't shedding pedals and was poking though. As frustrated as I was (and it jacked up some of harvests on some hunts I traveled for) I do realize that issue is less about the bullet design and more about the size of the company at the time. At the time they were ordering smaller lots of material and the metal supplier didn't follow their specs, didn't tell them they didn't, and hammer didn't check either (small company, esp. at the time). A larger company or a company ordering larger lots of materials would have likely avoided that issue by having ordering clout to keep the supplier on spec and also a receiving QAQC to verify the material is on spec or reject it and send it back to the supplier.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I shot a bull at 80 yards with a 280ai and ttsx. At 80 yards I should have been doing close to still 2900 fps. 3 shots he finally died

Certainly should have had the velocity. Where did the shots hit and transverse through out of curiosity? I'm always interested when folks have troubles with barnes since I've not had any issues with them (but I don't shoot rear lungs, I keep velocity up, I have no issue shooting though the shoulder if needed to transverse through the heart).

One other datapoint I have with the TTSX is a buddy shot a bull moose broadside at ~200yd with the 180gr from a 30-06. It soaked up 3 well placed rounds (all in a couple inches of each other) before finally dropping. I am quite certain it was gonna be dead regardless after that first shot but its a moose and I didn't really want it running away from the road so I told him to keep sending rounds as long as it was on its feet. After the second shot it was wobbling, third shot it dumped over.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

My son shot a mule deer doe with Hammer Hunters out of a 30-06. 225 yards. Perfect meat saver, rear lung shot, animal walked 15-20 yards and dropped. Good experience but sample size is only one.

Shot ~ 17 animals with TTSX. Never a bad experience but I was never impressed with the accuracy. 1" MOA bullet for us. I reload. They always have wobbly tips which irritates me even though they claim it won't effect accuracy.

Hammer accuracy is lights out. I now aim for the autonomic plexus not a meat saver shot. They have proved themselves in regards to accuracy. If the Hammers prove themselves on game over time then I'm done looking.

 

[Dunndm]

They are worse. Google hammer failures. There were several threads on LRH about them. Len probably deletes them because hammer is a sponsor over there. There are better options for elk, do you use monos because the state you live in requires it?

What’s LRH?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Please expand. What timeframe are we talking about also? I am curious it its the same tiemframe/issue I had.

In my case its because some years back their metal supplier sent them stock that wasn't to spec (too hard) and they didn't realize until bullets were made and shipped out. In my case I was getting minimal expansion and penciling through animals. Once I realized something was wrong and chatted with hammer it was determined my bullets were from that time period and were replaced (main complaint is that should have been a proactive conversation not a reactive one). My buddy shot a doe with the replacement bullets so far and the wound channel was good.

How many years back was that?

 

[WeiserBucks]

What’s LRH?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Longrangehunting.com

Hammers are very popular on that board and Hammer is a site sponsor there.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

A non-bonded cup and core lead bullet will break into hundreds of pieces exploding outward, causing serious damage. Hammer Hunters and a few others will break into a few(Hammer) says four and travel in the same direction as the wound channel. IME, these lightweight pieces of copper don't make it very far and "may" cause some damage if they break off at all, especially at longer-range impacts. So then you have a small diameter field point ice picking through an animal. Most of these nasty wound channels you see from Monos are at high speeds at 500 yards or less. If that is your wheel house that's great, it's just not mine. If I have to shoot Monos and I don't WANT to, but the writing is on the wall. I want one with a good BC that opens as wide as possible, making the biggest wound channel as possible without shedding its petal.


There is just no way to make copper bullets act or kill as effectively as a lead cup and core bullet IMO. But I have a few hunts coming up that don't allow lead, and so many of my fellow hunters are already caving to the leaf licker. We will all have to shoot monos soon enough, so I figured I should start testing them now.

If there are some major shifts in regulations or state law, companies like berger and hornady will throw some money at R&D for high bc monos…at least I would hope so. I am not thrilled with any of the current offerings…

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

How many years back was that?

The bullets I had issue with were from Jan 2019.

 

[muzz]

Certainly should have had the velocity. Where did the shots hit and transverse through out of curiosity? I'm always interested when folks have troubles with barnes since I've not had any issues with them (but I don't shoot rear lungs, I keep velocity up, I have no issue shooting though the shoulder if needed to transverse through the heart).

One other datapoint I have with the TTSX is a buddy shot a bull moose broadside at ~200yd with the 180gr from a 30-06. It soaked up 3 well placed rounds (all in a couple inches of each other) before finally dropping. I am quite certain it was gonna be dead regardless after that first shot but its a moose and I didn't really want it running away from the road so I told him to keep sending rounds as long as it was on its feet. After the second shot it was wobbling, third shot it dumped over.

2 in the lungs one in the neck