Gunsmithing Forum

[WYCFM1]

Do we have a page for gunsmiths and hobbysmiths to chat? Need recommendations on different equipment and tips/tricks/timesavers etc. Thanks guys!


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[TaperPin]

How fun - what kind of equipment?

 

[WYCFM1]

I’m in the preliminary phase of looking for a lathe and a mill. I’d like to start learning the basics of gunsmith work. Also if anyone has advice for maybe what they would have done different when they started


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[BBob]

Do we have a page for gunsmiths and hobbysmiths to chat?

Not specifically, I’d say it falls under the Firearms section. With that said it probably means you posted this thread in the wrong forum

Moderators???

 

[fngTony]

Not specifically, I’d say it falls under the Firearms section. With that said it probably means you posted this thread in the wrong forum

Moderators???

lol, I think his question posted in the general is fine. We have a ton of threads posted here that should be in the firearms section. Can’t speak for the others but I think it’s just asking for more work on our end moving things

 

[BBob]

lol, I think his question posted in the general is fine. We have a ton of threads posted here that should be in the firearms section. Can’t speak for the others but I think it’s just asking for more work on our end moving things

I was mostly just joking

 

[TaperPin]

I’m in the preliminary phase of looking for a lathe and a mill. I’d like to start learning the basics of gunsmith work. Also if anyone has advice for maybe what they would have done different when they started


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Guys differ in their budget and desired timeline. If you have the money and want to get up to speed as quick as possible it’s a different path from going slow and getting into it as economically as possible.

You’ll see the continuum for gunsmithing lathes on one end buy one of the popular new lathes sold for gunsmithing and spend 95% your time on gunsmithing related projects, or on the other end buy an old used lathe for scrap price and spend 95% of your time bringing it’s accuracy back. Only you can decide based on how much you enjoy tinkering and how precise your end result will be.

I’m a hobby machinist on my second used lathe and enjoy tinkering so it seemed like a good economical route to go with a old lathe sold for scrap, but it’s hard work, frustrating at times and many hundreds of hours and a grand in parts just to be able to chamber the first rifle. I highly recommend saving up to at least buy a fairly large lathe in good enough shape to function, if not a new one.

Ideally an unturned barrel blank should fit through the headstock. If not it limits the threading and chambering techniques

You kind of need to decide up front how precise you’d like to be - there’s nothing wrong doing basic work, and if you’re more detail driven there’s nothing wrong trying to be as accurate as possible. The techniques and tools required do differ a bit depending on what your end goals are.

I’ve bought up a number of take off barrels to practice on and you’ll find competition barrels to be rather inexpensive for their quality, and usually show very nice manual machining to emulate. The twists are slow, but they make great varmint and plinking guns.

Clapped out used Bridgeport milling machines are real money pits, so beware. Many gunsmith uses can be done on rather modest sized machines. However, inletting barrel channels is much easier when you can have a decent amount of travel.

Hope that helps.

 

[WYCFM1]

Guys differ in their budget and desired timeline. If you have the money and want to get up to speed as quick as possible it’s a different path from going slow and getting into it as economically as possible.

You’ll see the continuum for gunsmithing lathes on one end buy one of the popular new lathes sold for gunsmithing and spend 95% your time on gunsmithing related projects, or on the other end buy an old used lathe for scrap price and spend 95% of your time bringing it’s accuracy back. Only you can decide based on how much you enjoy tinkering and how precise your end result will be.

I’m a hobby machinist on my second used lathe and enjoy tinkering so it seemed like a good economical route to go with a old lathe sold for scrap, but it’s hard work, frustrating at times and many hundreds of hours and a grand in parts just to be able to chamber the first rifle. I highly recommend saving up to at least buy a fairly large lathe in good enough shape to function, if not a new one.

Ideally an unturned barrel blank should fit through the headstock. If not it limits the threading and chambering techniques

You kind of need to decide up front how precise you’d like to be - there’s nothing wrong doing basic work, and if you’re more detail driven there’s nothing wrong trying to be as accurate as possible. The techniques and tools required do differ a bit depending on what your end goals are.

I’ve bought up a number of take off barrels to practice on and you’ll find competition barrels to be rather inexpensive for their quality, and usually show very nice manual machining to emulate. The twists are slow, but they make great varmint and plinking guns.

Clapped out used Bridgeport milling machines are real money pits, so beware. Many gunsmith uses can be done on rather modest sized machines. However, inletting barrel channels is much easier when you can have a decent amount of travel.

Hope that helps

Thank you sir!

 

[Wrench]

I've had : Atlas 6x36, hardinge, South bend heavy 10, Precision Matthews BV1440.

I still have the heavy 10 and 1440. I would look for the heaviest machine with a 1-3/8" minimum headstock opening. A qc gearbox is a time saver and will keep you clean. A 3ph machine can be run off an inverter, but it isn't as awesome as a converter.

If I were looking right now, I'd be after a clean used Japanese machine or if I found a clean South bend I'd snatch it....if it was a D chuck and not a spin on.

If you can run it under power, turn a bar about 6" long while in the chuck and live center. Measure the test cut in a the middle and ends and they should be close. This will help see if bed wear is a problem. If that's a go, part off the end with the center drilled and then you can spot drill the stub if there's anything leaving a teat and put the drop back against the stub with the center.....this will show you how the travel on the tailstock is set. Left/right is no problem....low can be a problem.

Quality chucks can be several hundred bucks and you gotta have a 4 jaw independent and should have a 3 jaw scroll. If you can get a collet closer or a Jacob's flex collet.....even better.

You can live without a mill for a while with a palmgren, but you're limited on travel.....but at least you're milling.

I'm a big fan of the ar warner hs tools for threading with a manual machine because you can go slow or stop without killing the tool.....carbide will not tolerate anything other than cutting....a simple bump on setup can destroy the tool, hs steel is bomb proof and cuts beautifully at lower feeds/speeds.

There's a lot to learn, but before you start, watch some lathe crash and accident videos so you understand exactly how much trouble you can get into.

 

[PathFinder]

Glad to see this thread started with so much information. I'll be headed down the same rabbit hole soon.

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[ODB]

I’m in the preliminary phase of looking for a lathe and a mill. I’d like to start learning the basics of gunsmith work. Also if anyone has advice for maybe what they would have done different when they started


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Gunmakers can be an odd lot, cantankerous, loners etc., but if you can find one who would be willing to tolerate you being in the shop a day a week you will learn a ton. Many years ago I used to work with Duane Wiebe making bottom metal for Mausers. I used my autocad knowledge to adjust programs and then feed the mill. I actually worked with him to design bottom metal for the BRNO Model 1 and French MAS .22 LR rifles, which to my knowledge had never been done. In the interim I kept my ears open and learned one hell of a lot about Mausers and his approach to fine gunmaking.

No matter which path, good luck and don't be afraid to pick up the phone and call people you respect to ask an occasional question.

 

[Decker9]

I just purchased my first lathe to learn the metal side of things, picking it up in a few weeks here! I would love to see a gunsmith section, to both learn and share.

 

[Wrench]

Gunmakers can be an odd lot, cantankerous, loners etc., but if you can find one who would be willing to tolerate you being in the shop a day a week you will learn a ton. Many years ago I used to work with Duane Wiebe making bottom metal for Mausers. I used my autocad knowledge to adjust programs and then feed the mill. I actually worked with him to design bottom metal for the BRNO Model 1 and French MAS .22 LR rifles, which to my knowledge had never been done. In the interim I kept my ears open and learned one hell of a lot about Mausers and his approach to fine gunmaking.

No matter which path, good luck and don't be afraid to pick up the phone and call people you respect to ask an occasional question.

Duane is one of the masters....you were lucky.

One of my classmates was the grandson of Herman Waldron and we grew up in the neighborhood of the Biesen's. I have a ton of respect for those guild gun builders.

 

[Wrench]

It's always interesting to learn how much talent is in your area. When I got started we had about a half dozen well known smiths in the Spokane/cda area and they never advertised (other than Bemal and the Biesen's).

I imagine several other markets are like this one here. Find some gun shows or shops and look for some quality work, then find out who built it.

CNC smiths won't be super useful....but guys that did great things on manual machines will have a lot of success and failure stories. There was a group of us on the hide' about 15ish years ago that had a great gunsmithing thread. There was a lot of really well known smiths bouncing idead around and we came up with some great stuff....I don't know if that thread survived the forum reorganization.....but it's worth a look.

 

[Wrench]

Save this.

If you fill out the information....you're 99% of the way to a good result. You can save one for each rifle and learn how changes affect results.

 

[TaperPin]

I just purchased my first lathe to learn the metal side of things, picking it up in a few weeks here! I would love to see a gunsmith section, to both learn and share.

Nice! What did you get?

 

[TaperPin]

Wrench has a great suggestion with googling metal lathe accidents.

 

[Weldor]

Really good information, Thanks. Not a bunch of smith's around anymore, and that is sad. I have used some good ones and some not so good. I did the lathe and mill thing for awhile, bought off of craigslist and auction sites. Used mostly for Fab in the shop. Did tinker for awhile and decided there are guy's out there who are well worth paying for my minimal gunsmithing needs. I admit I did ruin more parts than I expected. Big learning curve. Seemed easy in high school 48 years ago. I do miss my 1955 Cleereman.

 

[Decker9]

Nice! What did you get?

I found a Standard Modern 1334 in beautiful shape, it comes with a good assortment of tooling and a few chucks. It has a vfd installed as well but I’ll need (want? Need?) to add a DRO sometime soon. First project once I learn the operations will be to build a rear spider for it.

Any recommendations on easy projects a guy can do to learn the operations of a machine?

 

[Mojave]

NRA has a summer gunsmithing program with Trinidad State College. They have a list of classes you have to take in a certain order. So it would take a while to get spun up. A month would get your set up pretty well.

You can also get spun up with your own local college, or pay one of the dealers of lathes for training.

You can buy a $1000 mini-lathe and learn the craft in your garage without working out electrical solutions that a full size lathe requires.

You also need a mill.

Grizzly sells combination Chinese machines for about $6500. You probably need another $1000-2000 worth of tooling. I think they provide training as well.