Guide reserves right to cancel Hunt?

[jerkeejoe]

I’ve never before used a guide but decided to hire one for a bull hunt this year because I don’t have the time to adequately scout for elk before the hunt. It’s a difficult tag to get here and I want to make the best possible use of it.

I received the agreement the other day and it contains a provision stating that the guide can cancel the hunt at any time with full refund.

This seems insane to me. Particularly as a lawyer I have incredible difficulty giving the guide carte blanche to cancel the hunt at any time without cause. I’d be screwed if I relied on the guide to do the prep work and scouting and then he cancelled without leaving me time to scout.

Is this a normal provision in a guide agreement?

 

[Where's Bruce?]

It is not and the important thing to remember here is that the client reserves the right to hire the guide with reasonable agreement terms. Keep shopping. That clause is BS. He can leave you high & dry on the day of? I don't think so. Where ya hunting?

 

[SW hunter]

Ive seen that before and always assume its thrown in for weather related purposes. Fire danger is too high, theres an active or recent fire, area is snowed in early, rivers too low to fish, waters too high, etc.

I assumed thats what it was regarding. Is this a separate or different clause?

 

[jerkeejoe]

Ive seen that before and always assume its thrown in for weather related purposes. Fire danger is too high, theres an active or recent fire, area is snowed in early, rivers too low to fish, waters too high, etc.

I assumed thats what it was regarding. Is this a separate or different clause?

The safety related stuff is a different section.

 

[SWOHTR]

Keep looking. Alternatively, you can talk with him and ask him that if that is the case, if he will provide you with promising areas he scouted since you are a paying customer. Almost more of a "drop camp" hunt at that point, not quite but somewhat similar.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Or you could have a discussion with him and ask him why that statement is in the terms. Let him know you're not comfortable with that provision of the contract. Ask him if he would consider deleting it if you decide to hunt with him. A gentle conversation costs nothing.

 

[jerkeejoe]

Or you could have a discussion with him and ask him why that statement is in the terms. Let him know you're not comfortable with that provision of the contract. Ask him if he would consider deleting it if you decide to hunt with him. A gentle conversation costs nothing.

I agree, and I already emailed him to ask. I just figured I’d ask here to check myself in case I was missing something.

 

[ODB]

Ive seen that before and always assume its thrown in for weather related purposes. Fire danger is too high, theres an active or recent fire, area is snowed in early, rivers too low to fish, waters too high, etc.

I assumed thats what it was regarding. Is this a separate or different clause?

Or a higher paying client.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Not sure who he is trying to protect (just kidding). I'm sure you have done your homework on this Guide, as far as his reputation, past clients (both satisfied and unsatisfied clients), and the State's Outfitter/Guide Licensing board as far as complaints. If he does remove that clause from the contract, who will he get to guide you at the last minute if he can't do it? Something like "Hi Hunter, I can't do it, but I found this guy sleeping in his truck in the barroom parking lot, he is your guide". I'm sure if the Guide is legit, and runs a responsible guide service the clause is a last resort type of legal mumbo jumbo, but at least it says that you would get a full refund (not much consolation when you show up ready to hunt, and have to go home).
If you don't get any straight answer from him that you feel comfortable with, you can always post his name and location here and I'm sure the Forum members would know him or know of him. Just a thought....

 

[elkstabber]

Interesting. I've always wondered what happens if a guide "overbooks".

I used to be a fishing guide and it can be tricky making sure to stay busy - but not too busy. Any number of things can happen to prevent the guide from going. It could be as simple as catching the flu.

 

[wymtnpounder]

I think they throw that in there to cover there ass if there's a last minute emergency. Like others said give him a call, check references, check with the board of outfitters, and ask if he's ever had to do it and why.

 

[seldomseensmith]

Let’s be clear. You have the tag. The guide cannot “cancel the hunt”. The guide can choose, for whatever reason, to not go with you but only you can cancel the hunt.


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[jerkeejoe]

He is a licensed Master Guide in the State of Nevada.

I emailed him and I suspect we’ll be able to work it out. I’ll update here when I hear back from him. I’m certainly not looking to burn anyone so I won’t be posting names unless something goes really wrong and I feel the need to prevent others from using the guide.

I was referred to him by a close friend who I trust.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Or you could have a discussion with him and ask him why that statement is in the terms. Let him know you're not comfortable with that provision of the contract. Ask him if he would consider deleting it if you decide to hunt with him. A gentle conversation costs nothing.

sound advice. this clause was in a guide contract for a close acquaintance on a trip to Africa. He called and was basically told it's in there to protect the guide in the event of an emergency (family, medical, etc...) that would render him/her out of commission. It allows them to cancel without being sued. Ended up being a non-issue.

 

[*zap*]

If you were the guide you would want that clause in the contract...as a lawyer you should understand that. If I was a guide and was dealing with a lawyer as a customer I would definitely want that clause in there.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I would probably be ok with it as long as the guide has a stellar reputation and fine references. The reality of most guided hunts is you’re pretty much at their mercy to deliver as promised. I’d probably be focused more on his historical performances and less on contract language.

 

[jerkeejoe]

If you were the guide you would want that clause in the contract...as a lawyer you should understand that. If I was a guide and was dealing with a lawyer as a customer I would definitely want that clause in there.

There you’re wrong. If I drafted the contract it would specifically state the cause necessary for a cancellation.

Suing someone is not fun, nor is it a good way to go through life. I’ve never sued anyone personally and hope I never do. If you have to sue someone it means that something has gone very wrong for you. The best way to not have to sue someone in this context is to only enter into agreements that you understand and agree to. I’m not willing to bear the risk of a guide being able to bail at any time for any reason, so I’m dealing with it now. If he’s not willing to change it, I’ll go back to the well.

As you’ve probably noticed reading this thread, I’m not the only one who feels this provision is a little off, so it has less to do with me being a lawyer than it does with me being a risk averse consumer.

 

[*zap*]

It is really impossible to include all things that may happen which would give the guide good reason to cancel or the reasons to cancel if listed could be worded in some vague manner...so, if the guides reputation is stellar 'any reason' may be reasonable and no cause for concern. But, I see the world thru my eyes.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Consider: If cancelled you get a 100% refund. Would you want to be on a hunt with a guide who doesn’t want to be out there (for legitimate reasons) but cannot cancel the hunt? I’ve been in that situation and would FAR prefer the cancellation and refund. Hunting with an unwilling guide is the most unrewarding hunt imaginable. I’m completely with you on the need to identify specific legitimate reasons to cancel. Soccer tournaments aren’t a reason.

 

[Trial153]

The only issue I see with a cancellation clause is cost of tags, applications and possibly points its took to draw the tag. In some cases if the cancellation happens early enough that might not be an issue either.

I wouldn't give it as second thought about it being in the contact if it was a hunt I wanted with an outfitter I wanted.