Grip Pressure vs. Torque Tuning

[Brandon Pattison]

Who says they aren't the same? If you look at it like that your rest, grip and sight all factor into it. Grip pressure is torqueing; why not set up your rig to have it built in, either pretuned or with a grip?

Adding minor amounts of pressures completely contradicts my USMC training in basic marksmanship called Natural Point Of Aim.

It almost makes me sick to my stomach to think that my paw and Hoyt grips don't jive. Albeit certain archers/bowhunters naturally shoot certain grips better than others.

Bare shaft tuning is what I am trying to achieve. I tried the all wood grip, side plates and no grip in which my bare shafts got closer to the fletched arrows, respectively. I need a grip that induces the correct amount of 'pressure' in lieu of using muscle.

I know no one in the state that is anal enough to help me.

 

[littlebuf]

Keep I mind that you can think your way or should I say over think your way out of a good shot and it can have nothing at all to do with your equipment. I'm shooting my absolute best when it's purely instinctual, I start screwing my self up thinking about all the stuff I or my bow May or may not be doing. Archery is so much more mental than any other shooting discipline it's crazy. I've talked myself into a lost arrow before, that's when Its time to hang it up for the night . Sounds like your really going round and round on grips and bare shafts, it can get In your head if your not careful

 

[Brandon Pattison]

Its all good. More demons with my recurve but I will leave that topic in the trad thread. I can shoot but something is going on. I need my equipment to be right or my head won't give it up.

Here's another thing that pisses me off: the fact that I have to untie my rest to check center shot and nock set. Figure that out and sell it.

 

[Brandon Pattison]

If you remember the old Hoyt catalogs they used to tell you the amount of reflex or deflex the risers had. Look at about 2005. Parallel limb technology has created this, in my opinion. Target bows are built with minimal reflex for a reason but no one seems to want to hunt with 'old school' technology.

 

[tipsntails7]

I've seen bareshaft tuning ruin archers. I mean guys get obsessed with it and guys will chase their tails. You have a hoyt so I presume it has yokes. Get a comfertable repeatable grip and use the yokes to tune your grip torque out. I've never shot a bow better then my vector and that's how I would do it. I'm unable to do that with my prime so I had to change my grip. It worked but it took a lot more effort to get accustomed to it. Tuning is about accuracy, it's difficult to concentrate on your shot when al you think about is your grip, tune to results not what someone says you should do.

 

[RosinBag]

It is like gripping a golf club, many different ways get it done. Don't worry about bare shaft tuning. If it groups it groups. I am surprised at all the hype of bare shaft tuning.

Overthinking this game, which is simple until your mind complicates it.

 

[ontarget7]

Lots of ways to tune but when you are trying to achieve the most out of your bow and form bareshafts don't get any better IMO.

You should not over think grip just like you should not over think anything in your shot process. The grip is just another subconscious thought that we should have on our check list IMO. After all I am always striving for the most forgiving and accurate set up possible.

 

[littlebuf]

I need my equipment to be right or my head won't give it up.

.

That's kinda what I'm getting at . How can you know what your equipment is doing when your switching between this grip and that, this torque and no torque. chasing a bare shaft tune when your the only one shooting it so there's no way to know if your just doing the same thing wrong over and over and your bows fine. You can psych your self out to the point you lose all confidence in your bow and your shot. I could be way off in your case but I've chased my tail once or twice and it just sounds familiar

 

[Brandon Pattison]

I've seen bareshaft tuning ruin archers. I mean guys get obsessed with it and guys will chase their tails. You have a hoyt so I presume it has yokes. Get a comfertable repeatable grip and use the yokes to tune your grip torque out. I've never shot a bow better then my vector and that's how I would do it. I'm unable to do that with my prime so I had to change my grip. It worked but it took a lot more effort to get accustomed to it. Tuning is about accuracy, it's difficult to concentrate on your shot when al you think about is your grip, tune to results not what someone says you should do.

This is what I think should happen, tune the bow to your consistent grip.

 

[tipsntails7]

This is what I think should happen, tune the bow to your consistent grip.

And when you have yokes you have the luxury of doing that, to a point obviously

 

[tipsntails7]

That's kinda what I'm getting at . How can you know what your equipment is doing when your switching between this grip and that, this torque and no torque. chasing a bare shaft tune when your the only one shooting it so there's no way to know if your just doing the same thing wrong over and over and your bows fine. You can psych your self out to the point you lose all confidence in your bow and your shot. I could be way off in your case but I've chased my tail once or twice and it just sounds familiar

This right here is spot on. Been there as well.

 

[Brandon Pattison]

This right here is spot on. Been there as well.

Great, now we need to cut LB down since you inflated him.

 

[c5mrr270]

Understanding Torque Tuning ????By: Tim “the Hammer” Gillingham


Over the course of your archery experience you may have come in contact with many opinions on many subjects and you will probably have various reactions to them. Most people take things repeated over and over again as the gospel and it seems the more it gets repeated the more it gets entrenched into our psyche.

You may have heard “ Overdraws make the bow more critical!” I tend to disagree and let me explain myself.

First I must give credit to the person that first brought the topic up in the first place. Many know world renowned professional archer Jesse Broadwater. Arguably one of the best archers the world has ever seen and probably the very best in the world today. He showed up on the scene a few years ago shooting an overdraw and many wanted to know why. Now I personally had been shooting an overdraw for many years for other reasons like being able to cut my arrow shafts shorter to lighten them up and make them stiffer. I had never seen a loss in accuracy so I continued to shoot my setups very successfully with about a 2” overdraw. When Jesse started talking about what he was doing I decided it was time to run my own tests and really try and figure out if indeed an overdraw was more forgiving. People were talking about “Torque Tuning” their bows and a friend of mine was convinced that the perfect spot on my particular bow for the rest was ¾” from the throat of the grip. After much testing an analysis, this is what I found and it was not what he had thought. The perfect spot for my rest was right where I had it with a 2” overdraw. Problem:Two things happen when we torque the bow, we are moving the sight one way and the arrow the opposite. The reason we get an impact change due to torque is that we are making compensations with the sight when we torque the bow and therefore the arrow is going to hit off line

Solution: If we can put the arrow rest in the right position we can find the “sweet spot” where the two actions(moving the sight one way and the arrow the opposite direction) cancel each other out. In laymans terms, this means I can set the rest and sight position to a point that no matter how I torque the bow left or right, as long as the sight is on target the arrow will hit in the middle where I am aiming.

How is this possible? How do I achieve this? Usually what has to happen in most setups is that the rest has to come back and the sight may have to be moved forward or back to fine tune it. The rest is the primary adjustment because it is close to the nocking point and therefore less of a movement at the rest will make more of a change downrange.

Here are the steps: 1. Sight your bow in at 20 yards to start with. 2. Draw the bow with and arrow, torque the riser to the left(arrow getting closer to the cable), put the pin in the middle and fire the shot. 3. Draw the bow with another arrow and torque the bow the opposite direction to the right( arrow getting further away from the cable), put the pin in the middle and fire a shot. 4. If the bow is perfectly torque tuned, all the arrow will hit in a tight group. If not, you will see a lateral spread in the arrows. Typically the arrow you torqued to the left( arrow getting closer to the cable)will impact to the right and the one torqued to the right(arrow getting further away from the cable) will impact to the left. 5. Make adjustments to the rest, usually you have to bring the rest back incorporating the Hamskea Overdaw in conjuction with your Hamskea Versa Rest. You will be amazed at the difference when you start playing with the rest position. 6. Once you get the arrow impacting very close at 20 yards no matter what left or right torque you put on the riser, move back to 50 yards or further and repeat the test. You may have to make fine adjustments. 7. You can also move the sight in or out if that is an available option to you and that will allow some fine tuning also. It has less of an effect than the rest due to its position further away from the nocking point.

Once you get this done you will be amazed at how much better your bow will shoot. One of the other factors that I ran into in this experiment was that the launcher on the arrow rest needed to provide side support. It is one of the major reasons that the Accu-Glide launcher is designed the way it is to provide side support and correction to the arrow on a torqued shot. I found that while testing a skinny carbon shaft on a wide launcher, that no matter what adjustments I made I could not get the torqued shots to come together. A simple bending up of the side of the launcher to provide side support solved the issue and that setup toque tuned exactly the same as other setups out of the same bow with a different arrow. Where this will benefit you most as an archer or bowhunter is when you place your hand in the bow incorrectly or when you are shooting in the wind and making compensations to keep your sight on target as you are being blow around. In general I think it will make your bow shoot much more forgiving and make you a better archer.