Great grandfathers Winchester model 1894 30-30

[Mattyq17]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me the age of this rifle. It was my great grandfathers and was been passed down to my father in 1992 when he passed. Rumor is it “could” have been used in a murder in the 1920’s in our then little town, but we could never find anything out about that. Attached are some pictures, I don’t know if the sight is original or not. Haven’t shot in over 20 years and it just sits in my dads safe. It was the first gun I hunted with and shot my first coyote with it. The serial number starts with 29 but I can’t make out the next 2 numbers. He was a great man(1901-1992) and every time I see or hold this rifle I think of my memories with him. Thanks for any feedback you can give me.

 

[Wapiti151]

Sure there are only 4? If there are only 4 digits and it starts with 29, that would make it a first year (1894). I’ve never seen a first year model 94. If it’s a 5 digit, 1895

Either way, as an amateur lever collector…that’s an amazing rifle

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guncollectionsonline.com

 

[Runningwater]

They didn't make it in 30-30 the first year. Not until 1895. Looks like the front sight was replaced at some point. Maybe when they added the receiver sight. Cool old rifle!

 

[Mattyq17]

Next time I am at my dads I will take a closer look to see if I can see a fifth digit. Most likely there if they didn’t make 30-30 the first year.

 

[deadwolf]

I can tell you without a doubt that it is not a first model receiver. It is missing the external screws at the rear of the loading port.

It is a second model action as shown by the small screw above the loading port.

Serial numbers are kinda wonky and can’t denote exactly what year the rifle was produced. But these pics above are the dead giveaways to which action model it is.

But with your action…”serial numbers as early as the 700’s are known, and quite a few guns with be found in the 2000-3000 serial range, but second model receivers will definitely not predominate until production numbers are into the 3000’s”

Period of manufacture of second model actions starts in mid 1895.

Given that the tang of your rifle still says “Winchester 1894”, it was produced prior to the early ‘20’s when the 18 was dropped from 1894.

Love these old rifles, love the fact that no one rode or walked without it with them at all times : ) Hang on to it forever !


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[deadwolf]

Digging further, the tang markings carry a “period” after the 1894 up to about serial number 10,000. After that the period is dropped from the tang markings. I’d look for five numbers in your serial number given the absence of periods on your tang markings.

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[Wapiti151]

Good info above. I have been digging here an there as well. You are definitely pre 1900/1901, which is when they dropped the "pat. aug 21 1894" and added "Trademark" to the tang markings. The period after 1894 was removed at roughly SN 15,101 (1895) and remained the same until it was changed again at SN 222,500 (1900-1901). At this point, the Pat. was removed from the tang, and was replaced with "Trademark". In 1908, the Tang changed again at ~500,000 to bring BACK the "patent" information. However, at this change, they did not bring back the "Aug 21" date. With that being known (based on world wide survey of known serial numbers and known MFG date), you are between 1895 (post period removal) and 1900/1901 when the Patent information was removed from the tang and replaced with TRADEMARK. Below is the image of the tang change at ~222,500 (1901), and then the tang change again at 1908


1895-1900

1900/1901-1908

1908-1920ish

1920

No matter the year in that 1895-1900 range, you have one of the earliest 1894s that i have seen, and one in unbelievable condition for its age. These rifles were rode hard back then.

Take a look at that SN when you get a chance, and also take a look at your barrel markings. Those changes appear to be another key to identifying date of mfg other than the serial number if it cannot be read.

I would respectfully disagree to the serial number comment above. The hard facts of the screws and the bbl/tang markings will give you an accurate pre/post date...but the serial number will give you the more accurate year of MFG. Granted, the exact records at Winchester for guns 354000-2600000 were destroyed in a fire (we think). And ALL data from WIN doesn't exist for a bunch of different reasons. But, most serial number ranges and dates of manufacture for early models are known and it's maintained by The Cody Firearms Museum. All Winchester data for <354,000 is pretty darn accurate according to winchester records. Everything between then and ~1945, most serial numbers are known and extensive surveys have taken place to identify which serial numbers coincide with specific models and changes. These are arguably the world's most popular rifles, the amount of research, time and record keeping of these serial numbers is pretty spot on and well documented, whether it be by Winchester, CFM or others. Now, not to say the source of these SN's and the date of mfg they represent cant be a bit off...but the SN will tell you your year +/- a year or so in most cases as long as the SN is entirely legible. Problem with a lot of these rifles, the SN can't be determined so you have to make an educated guess based on known changes like the loading gate screw, or the bbl/tang markings. The transition SN's and dates of MFG can be off with the hard changes too, so there isn't an exact science.

I would contact Winchester. They have a phone number on their website for their Winchester historian in Morgan Utah (800-333-3288). You never know...your rifle might have a record, and they may even have record of who it was shipped to from the factory. If they have nothing, try and call the Cody Firearms Museum

Some good info here: https://www.winchesterguns.com/support/faq/date-your-firearm.html

The tang changes above are based off of world wide survey results of known rifles, their identifying marks, and their serial numbers. Your rifle should be between 1895-1900/1901. The serial number will refine it further.

 

[deadwolf]

Great info Wapiti, love hearing about these rifles and expanding my knowledge on them a little at a time. My comment on the serial number is based on the material printed in “The Winchester Model 94, The First Hundred Years” by Robert C. Renneberg, likely a book you’re familiar with.

Without getting too deep in the weeds, he talks about the first model receivers starting with #1 into the early 5000 range, and further explains that the “serial range is consecutive but not totally inclusive, and after serials near 3000, second model actions noticeably predominate” Even in actions in the 700’s can actually be a second model receiver.

I guess what I was meaning with my comment is that serial number or action alone imay not be the only indicator of year if that makes sense as they can, and are, all over the place. Without a doubt contacting the museum in Cody is the way to go to get some good history and info

Good stuff!


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[Fishmaster196]

Go to the site gunvaluesboard.com. There is a Winchester specific forum there that is run by a historian with ties to the Cody Museum. They have most of the stamping room records for Winchester from when the serial numbers were applied to the rifle.
It’s a very interesting website.

 

[Wapiti151]

Great info Wapiti, love hearing about these rifles and expanding my knowledge on them a little at a time. My comment on the serial number is based on the material printed in “The Winchester Model 94, The First Hundred Years” by Robert C. Renneberg, likely a book you’re familiar with.

Without getting too deep in the weeds, he talks about the first model receivers starting with #1 into the early 5000 range, and further explains that the “serial range is consecutive but not totally inclusive, and after serials near 3000, second model actions noticeably predominate” Even in actions in the 700’s can actually be a second model receiver.

I guess what I was meaning with my comment is that serial number or action alone imay not be the only indicator of year if that makes sense as they can, and are, all over the place. Without a doubt contacting the museum in Cody is the way to go to get some good history and info

Good stuff!


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More good info on your end. Yeah the EARLY guns in these models seem to be pretty spotty. I can only imagine the adjustments they were making on the fly. And they obviously would have never expected these tools to be collectible.

Definitely agree with your comments on those super early serial numbers.