Grad school financial planning with my daughter

[307]

Indicators are the best source for predicting the future. Today's society is the result of the values taught to yesterday's children. Tomorrow's society is a function of the values taught to today's children. The response from those children are an indicator of the values they're being taught.

Ok, but that’s too young to even have valid indicators.

How many pro athletes and firefighters were there in the boys’ answers vs how many people end up as pro athletes or firefighters?

 

[Bigred323]

Ok, but that’s too young to even have valid indicators.

How many pro athletes and firefighters were there in the boys’ answers vs how many people end up as pro athletes or firefighters?

Not worth trying to make any sort argument or discussion with him.

Dooley eloquently and rightfully pretty much told him to pizz off the thread since that has nothing to do with what he’s asking lol.

Let the thread get back to what he’s actually asking for his daughter.

 

[ThorM465]

This is a big L take.

My wife went to grad school. Graduated with roughly 160k worth of student loan debt as a PA. In 2 years she's paid off about 70k of that debt, while contributing substantially to her (our) retirement savings. She graduated, worked for a year, then we had our first child. Went back to work after 12 weeks (unfortunately she couldn't get more time). We both work full time, and we share all home and child responsibilities. She is a damn good medical provider and an incredible mother. Being just one or the other would be wasting her talents as a human. Sure, she just took a new job where "full time" is 3 days per week so that she can spend more time at home, but she absolutely would not give up the value a career gives her. Stating that a woman's path in life is to raise the children of men, rather than following whichever life path they desire, is archaic and foolish.

Child as in singular? This is the L. Don't do the feminine thing and try and push others to make your mistakes so you can feel better about yours.

My wife and I agreed we wanted kids, once med school was over and we could provide them with a much better overall quality of life just from monetary amount of being an anesthesiologist.

We are in our late 30s, had our first at 33 years old and now have 3.

I couldn’t imagine having kinds in my early 20s, I was still a kid myself really fresh into the Marine Corps.

Kids are expensive, if she’s wants kids after vet school good on her. Much easier on a vet salary to raise kids compared to a vet tech…

And these days we switched roles. I retired from the Corps and stay home full time, while she can worn 2-3 days a week and make more then 99 percent of the population.

Nothing wrong with getting a career and becoming established before having kids, prolly smarter for most Americans anyways.

I never once said "he" should have his kids in his early 20s. Men and Women are not the same.
You and I are in a very similar situation, I wasn't ready to have kids in my 20s either. Late 20s to early 30s is optimum for men to becomes Husbands and Fathers. It's when we're best prepared to lead, protect, and provide.
We have 3 now. We did what our generation was taught was "best". We got married in our early 30s. I, honest to God, wouldn't change anything. However, the fact is that if my Wife was 10 years younger than me, we'd be working towards 5 kids. Is there a scenario where you and your Wife had more kids?
After Vet school she is going to have a very short window to have kids and a smaller pool of men to choice from. There's no changing that math.
It worked out for your Wife and you, I'm glad it did. However, we are statistically trending towards a very near future where 50%+ women over 35 will have never been married and have never had kids. A society cannot last for long with this dire of a stat.
Semper Fi Brother. Had I stayed in I could have retired last year.

 

[Scoot]

I'm quitte conservative and old school, but seriously... the 1800s have come and gone and so have most people with ThorM's perspective...

 

[BigMiss]

Child as in singular? This is the L. Don't do the feminine thing and try and push others to make your mistakes so you can feel better about yours.

I never once said "he" should have his kids in his early 20s. Men and Women are not the same.
You and I are in a very similar situation, I wasn't ready to have kids in my 20s either. Late 20s to early 30s is optimum for men to becomes Husbands and Fathers. It's when we're best prepared to lead, protect, and provide.
We have 3 now. We did what our generation was taught was "best". We got married in our early 30s. I, honest to God, wouldn't change anything. However, the fact is that if my Wife was 10 years younger than me, we'd be working towards 5 kids. Is there a scenario where you and your Wife had more kids?
After Vet school she is going to have a very short window to have kids and a smaller pool of men to choice from. There's no changing that math.
It worked out for your Wife and you, I'm glad it did. However, we are statistically trending towards a very near future where 50%+ women over 35 will have never been married and have never had kids. A society cannot last for long with this dire of a stat.
Semper Fi Brother. Had I stayed in I could have retired last year.

Yes, as in one child that is one year old. We're certainly hoping for more if we could be so lucky. How many would you like us to have? Lol. Misogyny isn't really the greatest play in a post about women in professional fields. But hey, out yourself, I guess.

 

[ThorM465]

Ok, but that’s too young to even have valid indicators.

How many pro athletes and firefighters were there in the boys’ answers vs how many people end up as pro athletes or firefighters?

Children mirror the values they are taught or more precisely the values their parental figures demonstrate that they value. It's the very definition of an indicator in the equation I put forth.

Are you really using lottery ticket winners to make a point about predicting the outcome of greater society?

Not worth trying to make any sort argument or discussion with him.

Dooley eloquently and rightfully pretty much told him to pizz off the thread since that has nothing to do with what he’s asking lol.

Let the thread get back to what he’s actually asking for his daughter.

This precisely what he asked. He asked 'how do I help my daughter best prepare for her future.' The correct answer is, don't do what modern propaganda has told you that you should do.
If you take issue with someone telling you that a young woman going half a million dollars into debt (indentured servitude) is detrimental to the one thing that will give her greatest meaning and satisfaction in life, you need to reevaluate yourself.

 

[Bigred323]

Child as in singular? This is the L. Don't do the feminine thing and try and push others to make your mistakes so you can feel better about yours.

I never once said "he" should have his kids in his early 20s. Men and Women are not the same.
You and I are in a very similar situation, I wasn't ready to have kids in my 20s either. Late 20s to early 30s is optimum for men to becomes Husbands and Fathers. It's when we're best prepared to lead, protect, and provide.
We have 3 now. We did what our generation was taught was "best". We got married in our early 30s. I, honest to God, wouldn't change anything. However, the fact is that if my Wife was 10 years younger than me, we'd be working towards 5 kids. Is there a scenario where you and your Wife had more kids?
After Vet school she is going to have a very short window to have kids and a smaller pool of men to choice from. There's no changing that math.
It worked out for your Wife and you, I'm glad it did. However, we are statistically trending towards a very near future where 50%+ women over 35 will have never been married and have never had kids. A society cannot last for long with this dire of a stat.
Semper Fi Brother. Had I stayed in I could have retired last year.

Dude. Just bow out and go to another thread.

This is asking for advice for a future professional. Obviously some just don’t have much to add to that kind of discussion.

 

[ThorM465]

I'm quitte conservative and old school, but seriously... the 1800s have come and gone and so have most people with ThorM's perspective...

Which is why our population is collapsing and the satisfaction of women is at an all time low. We made a radical change to society 100 years ago and have never stopped to evaluate whether we got it right when odds were astronomical that we were going to get it wrong. We've continued down that road and never made any course correction.

Yes, as in one child that is one year old. We're certainly hoping for more if we could be so lucky. How many would you like us to have? Lol. Misogyny isn't really the greatest play in a post about women in professional fields. But hey, out yourself, I guess.

I sincerely hope you have many more healthy children.

What exactly do you think misogyny means?

 

[bowhuntercoop]

Child as in singular? This is the L. Don't do the feminine thing and try and push others to make your mistakes so you can feel better about yours.

I never once said "he" should have his kids in his early 20s. Men and Women are not the same.
You and I are in a very similar situation, I wasn't ready to have kids in my 20s either. Late 20s to early 30s is optimum for men to becomes Husbands and Fathers. It's when we're best prepared to lead, protect, and provide.
We have 3 now. We did what our generation was taught was "best". We got married in our early 30s. I, honest to God, wouldn't change anything. However, the fact is that if my Wife was 10 years younger than me, we'd be working towards 5 kids. Is there a scenario where you and your Wife had more kids?
After Vet school she is going to have a very short window to have kids and a smaller pool of men to choice from. There's no changing that math.
It worked out for your Wife and you, I'm glad it did. However, we are statistically trending towards a very near future where 50%+ women over 35 will have never been married and have never had kids. A society cannot last for long with this dire of a stat.
Semper Fi Brother. Had I stayed in I could have retired last year.

Totally under stand where you’re coming from. We have been married for 17 years. Got married at 21. Another thing our generation doesn’t understand. Taking a vow and living by it.

For sure we say all the time if we would have kids in our 20s I would have a dozen running around haha. My wife is only 8 days younger then me. Late 20s, early 30s is perfect time to have kids like you said.

I wish her the best, hopefully find her soul mate early in life, has kids, and has a great career!

 

[ThorM465]

She has very little desire to have children or be married at the moment. "Boyfriends" usually get the back burner to school, work, and friends until they get sick of the back burner and move on which doesn't seem to phase her. She took me out to a Father's Day brunch and the table next to us had a couple very typical kids that were super talkative but she asked the waitress if we could please have another table because the kids drive her crazy. I don't think she will settle for an undergrad degree so this is way more of a financial decision I want to help her with than trying to convince her that she should be a good wife and mom instead of an education.

My Wife was the same way when we were dating. We once decided against joining a gym because the workout area was right next to a daycare full of crying and screaming kids. Fast forward a decade and she is an amazing Mother to our 3 children. The truth people don't talk about is that Women mature very quickly up until about 16 and stop until their first child. A Woman doesn't fully mature until she has a child. That first child changes everything and I mean that literally. A child changes a women's body and hormone levels in a way that will never be the same, which in turn changes them mentally.

To be clear, I never said she should never pursue this dream. I'm simply advising that she does that later if she still wants too.

She does need your leadership, regardless of what you decide is best and what her initial reaction is to it.
I do hope for the best for your daughter.

 

[PlentyOfDoes]

I do hope for the best for your daughter.

No you don't. You just want her to have children for to satisfy your warped world view. Yes, your views are very misogynistic. You view women as incapable of making logical decisions about their own life.

For OP, the military has some programs for vet students to help with loans if she is okay with military service. I have a few veterinarian friends with $200k+ in loans. Its not uncommon to be paying them back well into your 40's.

 

[ThorM465]

No you don't. You just want her to have children for to satisfy your warped world view. Yes, your views are very misogynistic. You view women as incapable of making logical decisions about their own life.

For OP, the military has some programs for vet students to help with loans if she is okay with military service. I have a few veterinarian friends with $200k+ in loans. Its not uncommon to be paying them back well into your 40's.

OP, this guy knows people who have done the same thing for much less and as a direct result held bad debt well into their 40s and thinks your Daughter should enter into indentured servitude too (at a higher price) in the name of fighting misogyny. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[MCGHeel]

Also a Veterinarian and don't have much to add to what arrow and big red said.
I'm one of the fortunate few that took out nominal loans and paid off as soon as I graduated. Got some inheritance from my paternal grandmother that covered one year of in state tuition at UGA. My father passed away as well right before I started vet school and his life insurance helped open things up for my mother to help out.

If either you or your wife own your own business, you could potentially pay your daughter in some capacity to help with living expenses. My mother owned a couple of automated car washes, so I was on the books as a carwash consultant. Talked with my mother about the business for 2 hours a week and that paid for my rent and majority of my food.

Playing devil's advocate, and because of your response to bigred, I would try to steer your daughter away from this profession. I don't think I would want any of my children to do it. I'm good at what I do, and am never bored, but the mental toll can be a lot. You can do everything right within the owner's budget and expectations, only to have things go to crap, and have pissed off owners. The equine world would be worse too. Horse folks are nuts.

Her debt to income ratio will be bad, especially if she goes into large animal/equine field, adding to the stress level. I'd tell her to go to medical school and work toward being an anesthesiologist.

The Army does have a loan forgiveness program for Veterinarians. You have to join up for 2-4 years after graduation. There's also programs for working in underserved areas, particularly large animal, where you can get full loan forgiveness after working in that area for a certain period of time.

Anesthesia here. Medicine can be a rewarding career but it comes with some major downsides. First, call will slowly kill you and majorly affect family life. The profession will also change how you view humanity writ large. You’ll see the full spectrum of human existence and deal with people in places of vulnerability and helplessness like you wouldn’t have thought at the beginning. These can be good things and opportunities to help and support people, but it is a burden on the individual physician as well as their family. Don’t forget being sued either; it affects everyone a little differently but I think for most it isn’t a positive experience.

The good: income can be good-great depending on how much you want to work. Lifestyle can be just about whatever you want so long as you are willing to live where the right job is.

Debt is high; when I finished more than a decade ago it felt like I was facing a mountain of debt to get past. I’ll second what others have said here; live on as little as possible the early years. You’ll soon forget how little fun you had and the freedom of being rid of that debt is hard to describe. No matter the grad program chosen, this will be important for anyone that has to take on debt to do it. Sorry for the rambling, best of luck to your daughter on this decision.


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[PlentyOfDoes]

OP, this guy knows people who have done the same thing for much less and as a direct result held bad debt well into their 40s and thinks your Daughter should enter into indentured servitude too in the name of fighting misogyny. You can't make this stuff up.

Well at least you didn't refute your misogyny this time and how you view women as lesser beings. Those friends are now doctors who accomplished their dreams. My point to OP was about looking into military service to fund it. I sincerely hope OP does not listen to anything you say.

 

[arrow179]

PhD is a doctoral degree. ;-)

But I get what you are saying. It's a lucrative business for schools.

For sure! The schools definitely rake in the $$$ for these degrees. It’s actually considered a professional doctorate degree earned through a graduate level academic program so kinda both answers are correct.

 

[DooleyVT]

For OP, the military has some programs for vet students to help with loans if she is okay with military service. I have a few veterinarian friends with $200k+ in loans. Its not uncommon to be paying them back well into your 40's.

I would love to see her join the military. It would be so good for her on so many levels.

 

[PlentyOfDoes]

I would love to see her join the military. It would be so good for her on so many levels.

Its not glamorous but she'll get help with payment, a steady paycheck, and some travel. Some bases will have clinics the vets can work in to do more routine work. You go in as an O-3 and all the benefits that gives.

Health Professions Scholarship Program is the name of it.

 

[307]

Are you really using lottery ticket winners to make a point about predicting the outcome of greater society?

Lottery ticket winners? I'm not following.

 

[307]

Its not glamorous but she'll get help with payment, a steady paycheck, and some travel. Some bases will have clinics the vets can work in to do more routine work. You go in as an O-3 and all the benefits that gives.

Health Professions Scholarship Program is the name of it.

Thanks, I just sent this idea to my daughter who's interested in PA school. Her sister is in the USAFA entry process right now so it might not be too shocking of a suggestion. Will report back...

 

[Ucsdryder]

As a father of 2 brilliant daughters I can’t fathom telling them to abandon their dreams and to go get in the kitchen.

My wife on the other hand, I try to tell her that shit all the time. But she tells me to eff off and reminds me who makes more $$$ in our household.

I guess I need to quit surrounding myself with strong women.