Governor Tags - Deer, Elk, etc.

[Trial153]

We’re shafting the auction participants. We’ve created artificial scarcity to drive up the price of the tag. It’s not fair for them.
if the market price comes to 37K per tag, like it was quoted above for example, and the market can bare it, well then we should sell them all at that price.
If you can’t afford it too bad. Hunt prairie dogs. There’s no free lunch in conservation.

 

[Hide Hunter]

We’re shafting the auction participants. We’ve created artificial scarcity to drive up the price of the tag. It’s not fair for them.
if the market price comes to 37K per tag, like it was quoted above for example, and the market can bare it, well then we should sell them all at that price.
If you can’t afford it too bad. Hunt prairie dogs. There’s no free lunch in conservation.

I love how everyone is ignoring this argument because they don't have a rebuttal.

 

[Beendare]

Or you could read this thread and see we have discussed a 1/8th of a percent sales tax towards fish and game. That would require no increase in license costs. You're using an emotional argument to whip people to your side. You don't have to be so scared of change.

Why is more taxes always the answer? So the poor working from paycheck to paycheck should suffer to benefit your ideology? We are experiencing this more tax solution in the US, there is always an excuse to raise taxes- it never stops. There is no incentive to manage gov resources efficiently.

Selling a tiny % of tags does not affect hunters one bit....while specifically benefiting hunting and conservation. It's a win, win.
High net worth folks can spend their money anywhere, I like that they spend it on Wildlife- glass half full.

This issue has totally changed in my lifetime.
Schools used to teach the principle, We live in the land of opportunity where anyone can be successful....now Educators and politicians appeal to peoples innate jealousies preaching, 'These people have more than you and thats bad'

 

[PMcGee]

I don't think you understand the basic needs of a modern society. Rich pay more. That's pretty clear throughout our society. Maybe if you keep defending billionaires, one day you'll become one lol.

I understand modern society. Rich people get to do more than I do oh well. I don’t whine about it like some do. Not really defending billionaires. Just the money they’re putting into conservation on their own not some guy telling them they have to.

 

[Trial153]

wait a minute ? It’s not fair that everyone pays a small tax to support conservation and the environment( which everyone lives in no matter how they decide to use it).
And It’s not fair that everyone that does Hunt pays the same, cause then some of them couldn’t hunt. But it is fair to let your money( yeah, i have plenty of it too) give you an opportunity that someone else may not( they are lazy by the way - they don’t work hard enough)?
Which argument is? I see the auctioneers plan every angle on the table to support this.

is the New Mexico sheep tag worth 37,000!?? if so, that’s what tag should cost. Sign me up. I will buy one next year. Why should some bloke from Las Cruces get a free lunch?

 

[PMcGee]

We’re shafting the auction participants. We’ve created artificial scarcity to drive up the price of the tag. It’s not fair for them.
if the market price comes to 37K per tag, like it was quoted above for example, and the market can bare it, well then we should sell them all at that price.
If you can’t afford it too bad. Hunt prairie dogs. There’s no free lunch in conservation.

What percentage of tags are auctioned off? Not enough to change your chances of drawing a tag. You act like half the tags are being auctioned off. It’s a ridiculous argument.

 

[Customweld]

One thing is certainly clear in this thread: envy is the thief of joy.

 

[Trial153]

OK here it goes again. We can’t all pay a tax for something that we all benefited from. Because the government is too inefficient.
Got it.

You want to talk about inefficiencies you look at the money we spent on sheep I’m using this as an example and we have a negative return year over here for the last 25 years. All we hear is but but but but if we didn’t do it it would be worse. really? Show me the evidence of that. Considering that all these projects that you have done weren’t done 80 years ago when there was actually sheep to be found on the landscape.
If you look at the dollars spent and our return, it would make the government look like a well oiled machine.

 

[Trial153]

What percentage of tags are auctioned off? Not enough to change your chances of drawing a tag. You act like half the tags are being auctioned off. It’s a ridiculous argument.

if one tag is good for the resource why aren’t all the tags auctioned off? Why are we short changing the resource? What is the benefit of subsidizing tags so that individuals that can’t pay market price can be allowed to participate.

 

[PMcGee]

OK here it goes again. We can’t all pay a tax for something that we all benefited from. Because the government is too inefficient.
Got it.

You want to talk about inefficiencies you look at the money we spent on sheep I’m using this as an example and we have a negative return year over here for the last 25 years. All we hear is but but but but if we didn’t do it it would be worse. really? Show me the evidence of that. Considering that all these projects that you have done weren’t done 80 years ago when there was actually sheep to be found on the landscape.
If you look at the dollars spent and our return, it would make the government look like a well

if one tag is good for the resource why aren’t all the tags auctioned off? Why are we short changing the resource? What is the benefit of subsidizing tags so that individuals that can’t pay market price can be allowed to participate.

Obviously so us poor folk still have a chance.

 

[PMcGee]

OK here it goes again. We can’t all pay a tax for something that we all benefited from. Because the government is too inefficient.
Got it.

You want to talk about inefficiencies you look at the money we spent on sheep I’m using this as an example and we have a negative return year over here for the last 25 years. All we hear is but but but but if we didn’t do it it would be worse. really? Show me the evidence of that. Considering that all these projects that you have done weren’t done 80 years ago when there was actually sheep to be found on the landscape.
If you look at the dollars spent and our return, it would make the government look like a well oiled machine.

So you think we should just stop sheep projects and see what happens? Id be all in for ending auction tags then.

 

[Trial153]

Obviously so us poor folk still have a chance.

You’re advocating socialism ? All hunters are equals but some hunters are more equal than others. Got it

Give everyone a chance as long as there is work around for those of us that can afford it.

which is ? You have taken every angle of the this argument. They can’t all be correct .

 

[PMcGee]

You’re advocating socialism ? All hunters are equals but some hunters are more equal than others. Got it

Give everyone a chance as long as there is work around for those of us that can afford it.

which is ? You have taken every angle of the this argument. They can’t all be correct .

Nah socialism everyone would get a tag. My angle hasn’t changed at all lol. I’m fine with a few select tags being auctioned off to the evil rich guys even if it hurts us poor fellas as you say. My odds are still the same with or without auction tags.

 

[Trial153]

Nah socialism everyone would get a tag. My angle hasn’t changed at all lol. I’m fine with a few select tags being auctioned off to the evil rich guys even if it hurts us poor fellas as you say. My odds are still the same with or without auction tags.

Your odds are not the same. keep telling yourself that .
If you look at it microcosm of one species, one pool one state it maybe 200-300 basis points.
However when you extrapolate that out across the board to all species and you have a substantial number.

 

[cuerro viejo]

The missouri tax works out to $16 per person annually. Sales taxes are regressive. So I would very much support a progressive tax that would target the rich and still bring the same income. My guess is you will hate any tax that targets the rich based on your other stances.

yes I’m not into entitlements based on the lack there of. I’m also not asking other people to pay for your wants. The Gov tag only financially affects those that want to contribute to it. You want everyone else to pay for you. Distinct difference in ideology

 

[PMcGee]

Your odds are not the same. keep telling yourself that .
If you look at it microcosm of one species, one pool one state it maybe 200-300 basis points.
However when you extrapolate that out across the board to all species and you have a substantial number.

Sure they are. Tags auctioned off don’t come from the general pool. You can argue well they should be put in the general pool ok. So unless that one tag is put into the unit I apply for my odds are still the same. I get you and a few others here despise people with money. I have better things in life to worry about. I’m not going to get pissed at someone because they have more money than me and get to do cool stuff. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[idelkslayer]

There was some objection to the idea of charging the broader hunting population or taxes for sheep conservation when many hunters don't care about sheep at all. So I thought of an alternative. I looked up Idaho's auction tag price over the last 5 years. It's different here because the tag can only be used in the most coveted unit every other year, so our auction tag price varies between ~200K and 300K depending on the year. Call it an average of $250K. There were ~4000 applicants for bighorn tags. $250K/4000 is equal to $62.50 per applicant. Charge applicants a non refundable $75 application fee and BAM we don't need auction money anymore. I'd pay it.

For further context, the Raffle tag in Idaho has been selling ~20,000 entries to 2,000 applicants the last few years. Ticket prices vary depending on how many you buy (1+$20, 6 for $100, 25 for $250) ranging from $10-20 per entry. On average those applicants are paying over $100 and some over $200 for an entry in the raffle. So I don't think it is outside the realm of reason to think that applicants in the draw would be willing to pay $75 per application.

My main point is that we don't "need" auction money. WSF is pissing on our heads and telling us it's rain. We could find ways to replace it, but auction money is easy and has a 30 year history that is difficult to change.

I can also acknowledge that the existence of an auction tag does not change my drawing odds. As a matter of fact I am already out of the bighorn game in Idaho and not applying in other states. I mostly just bristle at the marketing and messaging coming from WSF regarding auction tags that I think is no more than rhetoric to appease us and perpetuate their auction system to the benefit of a few.

 

[Trial153]

Sure they are. Tags auctioned off don’t come from the general pool. You can argue well they should be put in the general pool ok. So unless that one tag is put into the unit I apply for my odds are still the same. I get you and a few others here despise people with money. I have better things in life to worry about. I’m not going to get pissed at someone because they have more money than me and get to do cool stuff. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

you may not know me too well . I fall way closer to the group participating in auctions a regular basis that goes that don’t. In fact I have bid and won a tag!

I have no reason to be envious of anybody hunting budget considering what mine is yearly and what i am lucky enough to experience

All that aside i don’t think it’s the right coarse for hunting.

 

[TimberRunner]

One thing is certainly clear in this thread: envy is the thief of joy.

 

[RockAndSage]

Yes. That's called a society

^ and that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call marxism.

I voluntarily pay for special "conservation" license plates at the Nevada DMV, where I pay extra money every year to have those plates - for that money to go to conservation.

I voluntarily purchase raffle tickets for Nevada's dream tags, and voluntarily pay to try to land a governor's tag every year - voluntarily.

All that extra voluntary money goes into conservation - for animals I and anyone hunting also has better access to afterward, through better game numbers and healthier herds.

Those herds and everyone else's ability to draw a normal tag are enhanced by that voluntary, free-market/public-good approach, that doesn't require a marxist gun to the head of broader society in forcibly extracting the value of other people's labor to support my personal hobbies they don't participate in.

There's more than one way to grow our game herds - but I have zero problem with a handful of prized tags being auctioned off if some "filthy rich" hunter wants to barf up 6-figures in cash voluntarily, as long as that money's going to conservation and enhanced game opportunity for everyone else.