Governor Tags - Deer, Elk, etc.

[RockAndSage]

The most mystifying thing on this entire forum, is watching a tiny fraction of us pro-freedom, pro-liberty, pro-capitalist, gun owning, hard working people, turn into absolutely raving marxist lunatics when it comes to governor tags or landowner tags. Absolutely unhinged, cracker-culture hatred of "the rich", completely unable to see how we all get more tag opportunities through the conservation work that comes from those systems.

 

[BishBeCool]

The most mystifying thing on this entire forum, is watching a tiny fraction of us pro-freedom, pro-liberty, pro-capitalist, gun owning, hard working people, turn into absolutely raving marxist lunatics when it comes to governor tags or landowner tags. Absolutely unhinged, cracker-culture hatred of "the rich", completely unable to see how we all get more tag opportunities through the conservation work that comes from those systems.

preach it brother

 

[realunlucky]

completely unable to see how we all get more tag opportunities through the conservation work that comes from those systems.

Been waiting on the ol' red herring argument. When I look at Utah's once in a life tag numbers it doesn't look like the juice is worth the squeeze unless your the rich who gets the first glass of juice every time.


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[BishBeCool]

Been waiting on the ol' red herring argument. When I look at Utah's once in a life tag numbers it doesn't look like the juice is worth the squeeze unless your the rich who gets the first glass of juice every time.


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Im ignorant to what has happened in Utah specifically. but is there more tags offered privately than there is to the general public for once in a lifetime tags?

 

[realunlucky]

Im ignorant to what has happened in Utah specifically. but is there more tags offered privately than there is to the general public for once in a lifetime tags?

That's not the argument.
The entire basis is selling tags creates more opportunity by letting those paying the most skip to the head of the line. The question becomes if that increase is a direct result of or is it rather the improvements and data in today's management strategies

I'm saying that selling Utah's hunting heritage to the highest bidder is stealing tags from the average sportsmen that are funding the bulk of conversation.

Can my kids hunt Henry moutain deer after 30 years of selling that tag? Nope Utah keeps tag numbers low to drive the demand and cost of said tag up.

That said those conversation tags do fund some great things but is the trade off worth it is the question residents must answer for themselves.


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[RockAndSage]

When I look at Utah's once in a life tag numbers it doesn't look like the juice is worth the squeeze unless your the rich who gets the first glass of juice every time.

What role does far more hunters applying than ever before, and far more winter-range habitat destruction from subdivisions being built, have to do with tag numbers and opportunity?

And how does that compare to the additional tags available through landowners contributing to habitat cultivation?

Utah's system is a bit different than Nevada's, and I don't have all the details of how your state's tags are distributed - but I guarantee there would be fewer deer tags if landowners aren't incentivized in favor of helping deer herd population growth. Especially when crop damage is a real thing.

 

[BishBeCool]

That's not the argument.
The entire basis is selling tags creates more opportunity by letting those paying the most skip to the head of the line. The question becomes if that increase is a direct result of or is it rather the improvements and data in today's management strategies


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Roger.

 

[realunlucky]

What role does far more hunters applying than ever before, and far more winter-range habitat destruction from subdivisions being built, have to do with tag numbers and opportunity?

And how does that compare to the additional tags available through landowners contributing to habitat cultivation?

Utah's system is a bit different than Nevada's, and I don't have all the details of how your state's tags are distributed - but I guarantee there would be fewer deer tags if landowners aren't incentivized in favor of helping deer herd population growth. Especially when crop damage is a real thing.

So classic trickle down. If we fund private improvements that'll grow more deer and some will obviously eventually jump the fence into public hunting domain.

Again it's nuanced by number of tags and proceeds raised and how those said monies are spent.

The best thing about private projects and auction tags are the projects can quickly be implemented and whatever the benefits are starting much sooner.

Again saying it's worth the trade off to you doesn't mean it's right for everyone involved.

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[Hide Hunter]

Another thought.

let’s say this year, one tag gets sold (auctioned) for a price that a relatively small group of individuals can afford. Yes it’s correct that there is one less tag for the general population. (Any mathematicians want to figure out the potential odds of drawing that single particular tag? ). Now, with these types of sales and the programs they fund more tags are now available to the general population in the future how is that not a good return? I’d rather try my odds for one of 20 tags against 10,000 dudes than one of 3 against 10,000, Or none at all because a population declined or disappeared

Also, I’m pretty sure any person in this discussion could pick up one of those governor tags. You don’t need to come from a royal bloodline. Those tags are attainable for anybody with the $$$. We could all be a little more ambitious or put our house up I guess . I’m apparently not that ambitious, and not putting my house up. I don’t have a problem letting some dudes at a black tie event swing D’s around and ultimately benefit something we all love and possibly help provide us with more opportunities in the future.

I don't think you're aware of the financial situation of the average American if you think most of us could afford a governors tag if we just work a little harder.

 

[Hide Hunter]

The most mystifying thing on this entire forum, is watching a tiny fraction of us pro-freedom, pro-liberty, pro-capitalist, gun owning, hard working people, turn into absolutely raving marxist lunatics when it comes to governor tags or landowner tags.

I identify as a pro-freedom, pro-liberty, pro-north American model of conservation, gun owning, hard working American. Just because I hunt, doesn't mean I have the same political feelings as you. I will not worship the rich just because they were born lucky. Sorry if that makes me a Marxist in your eyes.

 

[WRO]

That's not the argument.
The entire basis is selling tags creates more opportunity by letting those paying the most skip to the head of the line. The question becomes if that increase is a direct result of or is it rather the improvements and data in today's management strategies

I'm saying that selling Utah's hunting heritage to the highest bidder is stealing tags from the average sportsmen that are funding the bulk of conversation.

Can my kids hunt Henry moutain deer after 30 years of selling that tag? Nope Utah keeps tag numbers low to drive the demand and cost of said tag up.

That said those conversation tags do fund some great things but is the trade off worth it is the question residents must answer for themselves.


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But if they put 250 tags on Henry’s and it turned into a 160 class hunt, would you have the same desire to hunt it. Sfw and the MDF do a ton of great habitat work in Utah, that being said the amount of tags sold/raffled is pretty obscene. Utah residents don’t take the brunt though as most of those tags come from the nr pool.

Utah elk is a great example of what too much opportunity brings, in the early 2000s I drooled over the mossback videos with all the giant bulls, that class isn’t there’s nearly as much because of the added mid season and late season tags.

You want to hunt where giants live, the price is very limited opportunity.


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[realunlucky]

But if they put 250 tags on Henry’s and it turned into a 160 class hunt, would you have the same desire to hunt it. Sfw and the MDF do a ton of great habitat work in Utah, that being said the amount of tags sold/raffled is pretty obscene. Utah residents don’t take the brunt though as most of those tags come from the nr pool.

Utah elk is a great example of what too much opportunity brings, in the early 2000s I drooled over the mossback videos with all the giant bulls, that class isn’t there’s nearly as much because of the added mid season and late season tags.

You want to hunt where giants live, the price is very limited opportunity.


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I'm going to make two points then be done with this thread.

1- tags coming out of the non-resident pool do affect resident. Part of the hunting heritage is the comradery of friends and family. I have army buddies that have been putting in for Utah since I met them over twenty years ago that still can't hunt the unit I live in. What about my kids and grandkids? Frustrating for sure.

2- why does Utah have to make hunting easier by artificially influencing the age class? Locking everyone out is essentially building a high fence hunting experience by default.

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[BishBeCool]

I don't think you're aware of the financial situation of the average American if you think most of us could afford a governors tag if we just work a little harder.

Read harder dude.

I’m fully aware of the financial position that most Americans are in. I’m also aware that there is a free market outside and us Americans with our freedoms and liberties we’ve been blessed to inherit by being born within the CONTUS that it’s possible to obtain such financial freedoms. I don’t think we can obtain a governors tag by working “ a little harder”. I know you have to work a lot harder, risk a lot more, and dedicate more time than most of us are willing are to spend. Or, in an extreme case you could sell your house, clear a retirement account etc…. Like I said, i personally am not that ambitious lol, im not selling my home for a sheep, goat, Bigfoot or what ever.

 

[WRO]

I'm going to make two points then be done with this thread.

1- tags coming out of the non-resident pool do affect resident. Part of the hunting heritage is the comradery of friends and family. I have army buddies that have been putting in for Utah since I met them over twenty years ago that still can't hunt the unit I live in. What about my kids and grandkids? Frustrating for sure.

2- why does Utah have to make hunting easier by artificially influencing the age class? Locking everyone out is essentially building a high fence hunting experience by default.

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1. That’s the whole west in a nut shell.

2. Not everyone wants to aspire to mediocrity. Having been on some great tags, it’s hard to get excited to hunt low end opportunities.