Good lightweight set it and forget it optic

[JeffRaines]

So, I'm currently building a rifle(280ai, 8 twist) and I need to go ahead and buy a scope for this one.

My other scopes are dialers - heavy, but repeatable. They're great, but with this rifle I'm thinking I'm gonna try to go a little lighter weight and instead of dialing a bunch, just use a BDC and keep the max yardage down(thinking 500 or so max - gonna depend heavily on how steady the rifle ends up being).

I'm sorta looking at the Maven CRS series(I seen the RS2 and while it looks great, IMO its not worth the extra money to save two ounces over the CRS). However, I have no direct experience with these guys... but they're on sale. I don't know how to feel about it.

What else is out there? Zero retention is a must. I'd really prefer lightweight... if we start having to inch toward 20+oz I'd sooner just buy a repeatable dialer and call it a day.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

have a look at Trijicon AccuPoint 3-9x40 mil-dot, green dot, beauty glass, battery free illumination in the right color, 13.4 oz, clears in 1" low rings, has (5) 1 mil holds below zero (4 dots and post thickening) and that get's a slow 6.5 Grendel to 620 yards at Alberta elevations from a 200 yard zero, it'll get a 6.5 Creedmoor to 730 yards

 

[Lionhound1975]

have a look at Trijicon AccuPoint 3-9x40 mil-dot, green dot, beauty glass, battery free illumination in the right color, 13.4 oz, clears in 1" low rings, has (5) 1 mil holds below zero (4 dots and post thickening) and that get's a slow 6.5 Grendel to 620 yards at Alberta elevations from a 200 yard zero, it'll get a 6.5 Creedmoor to 730 yards

I just bought this same scope mentioned above for a lightweight set up on a Tikka T3X Lite. I plan on doing a 200 yard zero and keep dope on holdover distances up to 5 MIL. The glass is very good and the green dot stands out even against green vegetation.

 

[LightFoot]

So, I'm currently building a rifle(280ai, 8 twist) and I need to go ahead and buy a scope for this one.

My other scopes are dialers - heavy, but repeatable. They're great, but with this rifle I'm thinking I'm gonna try to go a little lighter weight and instead of dialing a bunch, just use a BDC and keep the max yardage down(thinking 500 or so max - gonna depend heavily on how steady the rifle ends up being).

I'm sorta looking at the Maven CRS series(I seen the RS2 and while it looks great, IMO its not worth the extra money to save two ounces over the CRS). However, I have no direct experience with these guys... but they're on sale. I don't know how to feel about it.

What else is out there? Zero retention is a must. I'd really prefer lightweight... if we start having to inch toward 20+oz I'd sooner just buy a repeatable dialer and call it a day.

Thanks in advance.

The Maven RS.1 is really cool because it is light and FFP, so your hold overs are consistent through the power range. When I looked at them at a trade show, I was not impressed with optical performance... but that was inside a building and probably not indicative of real world performance.

Burris Veracity is also FFP, so same here.

All the new Leupold VX-3HD scopes have the CDS-ZL, which locks so you could set and forget. Limited on the reticle options, though.

Swarovski Z3 and Z5 with the BRH reticle are very good. I am not a fan of the reticle, but I am 100% behind their glass. The Z5 3.5-18x44 is probably the ultimate mountain scope.

I am getting Browning Pro 280 AI and topping it with a Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 CDS-ZL (that I already have). If I were buying a scope... errr.... that's tough... I'll think more on that.


Edit:
I've thought about it.
Under $1K - Swarovski Z3,
over $1K - Swaro Z5.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I just bought this same scope mentioned above for a lightweight set up on a Tikka T3X Lite. I plan on doing a 200 yard zero and keep dope on holdover distances up to 5 MIL. The glass is very good and the green dot stands out even against green vegetation.

yes that dot is excellent, even in shady dips while calling coyotes in bright sun over snow landscapes the fiber optic pulls in enough light to over power the snow to be visible and pops excellent on a coyote, about the worst conditions I could think of outside of a blind to test the illumination of that dot, really excels in timber and low light and on big game, the snow testing was a big criteria for me as we call lots in winter, obviously those who hunt from blinds the dot will not lume as much but still adequate to get job done, you can replicate it somewhat from a darker room in the house while looking outside but step outside and sun or shade and it pulls in more than enough light to make that reticle awesome, battery would be better choice for those who hunt blinds more than not, but outside of the blinds the Trijicon is the shizzle for the nizzle in all conditions I could think to put it up against

also a set of 1" talley lows (shhhhh don't say that too loud) adds 2.0 ounces for a total 15.5 oz rings/scope addition to a lightweight build

for perspective on my Grendel with 2386 fps launch and .5 bc and 200 zero the dots go 300, 390, 475, 550 and post thicken at 620 yards at 25 Hg(~5000') and 5c (41f), the dots are 0.25 mil in diameter so you can run some wind references in both inches and mils to have some options for the longer shots and practice etc. most of your wind calls will be under 1 mil which you'd reference against on the horizontal mil dots but having the 0.25 mil diam. dot you can likely hit a 0.2-0.7 type hold over but the speedy hunt reference might be to just move over in inches

 

[Sandstrom]

What’s the wind strategy for these 500 and 600 yard hold over shots using SFP duplex-type reticles?

If you get straight up wind, no hold off necessary;-)

 

[MuleyFever]

What’s the wind strategy for these 500 and 600 yard hold over shots using SFP duplex-type reticles?

The 3x9 Accupoint that was suggested has mil dots for windage

 

[MuleyFever]

So, you would plan on holding off and holding over in the empty space of the reticle? What would you say your accuracy would be holding off and holding over with a straight mil-dot reticle?

Yes

 

[MuleyFever]

Can you post up some target pictures at distance in mild to windy conditions? Interested in how accurate & precise guys can be that use this strategy.

No

 

[willfrye027]

I’ve been looking for a similar optic. I’ve the hold over deal at 500 and to me it is not ideal or very precise. Lots of guesswork. I settled on the SHV 3-10 and plan to unscrew the cap and dial beyond 300. May be able to do the same with trijicon if weight is very important.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

So, you would plan on holding off and holding over in the empty space of the reticle? What would you say your accuracy would be holding off and holding over with a straight mil-dot reticle?

well being a Canadian I do wind at 6.1 mph (10 kmh) intervals even though speak USA for distances and would keep reference data in small decal on scope, you memorize this, you only need it for the 5 points of reference, here's example of my slow Grendel would be on that reticle

1st dot(300y) - 4" (.2 mil)
2nd dot(390y) - 7" (.5 mil)
3rd dot(475y) - 11" (.7 mil)
4th dot(550y) - 15" (.8 mil)
Post(620y) - 20" (.9 mil)

The dot itself is 0.25 mil...so if you'd rather try to mil the wind hold in the air you can use the dot, double or triple it, look to the main crosshair even where the 1st dot left or right is 1 mil for longer than 1 mil holds...most won't try to shoot game at extreme end of those distances with beyond 1 mil holds so having the 0.25 mil dot itself you can easily figure a .5 hold over in the air etc. Personally I will just convert to inches as I know the size of the animals I hunt. Most of my wind holds will still likely be on the dot itself as most of my longer shots will be in winds that a simple nudge into the wind while staying inside edge of vitals is plenty.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I’ve been looking for a similar optic. I’ve the hold over deal at 500 and to me it is not ideal or very precise. Lots of guesswork. I settled on the SHV 3-10 and plan to unscrew the cap and dial beyond 300. May be able to do the same with trijicon if weight is very important.

ya I'd look at the mil-dot as back up and still order a Kenton speed dial for the Trijicon to match my load/elevation so can still dial up to about 520 with slow Grendel and likely 100 further with the non-grandma cartridges ...then you can do either, dial or dot, practice with either etc. redundancy/options

 

[dirtshooter]

ya I'd look at the mil-dot as back up and still order a Kenton speed dial for the Trijicon to match my load/elevation so can still dial up to about 520 with slow Grendel and likely 100 further with the non-grandma cartridges ...then you can do either, dial or dot, practice with either etc. redundancy/options

Bro we miss you at AO.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Bro we miss you at AO.

Thanks Man, miss a bunch of you guys there too, although most of them are banned also! You've done well to survive and have a good method of poking the bear and not getting banned. I lack that grace, ask anyone here.

That forum misses a bunch of people, pretty sure they have sealed their fate by censoring/banning everyone with a viewpoint from the window (vs the tv screen) but also a lot of people look to have left on their own accord due to witnessing said censorship...it's a ghost town. Wrong type of forum to go full left on.

edit, hadn't looked in a minute on AO, it's been good weekly entertainment to check on the politics thread and see watch the remaining few truthers gracefully navigate survival and I see in the last page alone 2 more got suspended, can't be many left now lol....tell them to come on over here, I see gunnutz is very tolerant of actual conversation so there's always that also lol

 

[woods89]

What’s the wind strategy for these 500 and 600 yard hold over shots using SFP duplex-type reticles?

This is what soured me on bdc reticles a few years ago. I was convinced it was going to be the simple, fast way for moderate range field shooting. It didn't take very many shots holding in dead space to realize that it wasn't the answer for me.....

 

[Stinky Coyote]

This is what soured me on bdc reticles a few years ago. I was convinced it was going to be the simple, fast way for moderate range field shooting. It didn't take very many shots holding in dead space to realize that it wasn't the answer for me.....

how much wind speed were you trying to deal with and what was your bc and muzzle velocity?

you can prolly see why the 6.5 manbun is so popular once you start looking at wind, those .6+ bc's are wind fightin sumbitches, I tend to over compensate even with .5 bc 6.5 grandma, it takes quite a bit of wind past 500 yards to push you out of a kill zone hold on a broadside big game critter with the modern bullets/cartridges, most reasonable wind shots a guy would take at game at 5-600 yards you don't even need to check wind call, you can feel if wind is reasonable, not gusting like a storm, and just move the crosshair into the wind to the edge of the kill zone and your freezer will be full

kinda reminds me of the rule of thumb for coyote hunting, when you don't have time to range...always hold on fur for first shot...you'd be surprised just holding into wind side edge of vitals how far out and how much wind you can have before you'd need to do anything else

 

[woods89]

how much wind speed were you trying to deal with and what was your bc and muzzle velocity?

you can prolly see why the 6.5 manbun is so popular once you start looking at wind, those .6+ bc's are wind fightin sumbitches, I tend to over compensate even with .5 bc 6.5 grandma, it takes quite a bit of wind past 500 yards to push you out of a kill zone hold on a broadside big game critter with the modern bullets/cartridges, most reasonable wind shots a guy would take at game at 5-600 yards you don't even need to check wind call, you can feel if wind is reasonable, not gusting like a storm, and just move the crosshair into the wind to the edge of the kill zone and your freezer will be full

kinda reminds me of the rule of thumb for coyote hunting, when you don't have time to range...always hold on fur for first shot...you'd be surprised just holding into wind side edge of vitals how far out and how much wind you can have before you'd need to do anything else

It's always windy where I hunt elk, so I would expect to always have some kind of wind call at any distance beyond close.

I never was in that position on game, because I found out shooting steel that it just wasn't intuitive at all to be trying to draw imaginary lines from 2 different points

And yes, I was using a 6.5 bullet with a bc of around .680, started at 2650 fps, so wind performance was pretty good.

I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it didn't pass my personal test. I also am hesitant to bank too much on the kill zone of an elk, as once errors start stacking things seem to get squirrelly in a hurry. YMMV.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

It's always windy where I hunt elk, so I would expect to always have some kind of wind call at any distance beyond close.

I never was in that position on game, because I found out shooting steel that it just wasn't intuitive at all to be trying to draw imaginary lines from 2 different points

And yes, I was using a 6.5 bullet with a bc of around .680, started at 2650 fps, so wind performance was pretty good.

I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it didn't pass my personal test. I also am hesitant to bank too much on the kill zone of an elk, as once errors start stacking things seem to get squirrelly in a hurry. YMMV.

Ya it comes down to picking your system then practicing. It can be practiced and simplified pretty easily on bigger steel but man that's a slippery set up you have there. Here's what my wind chart would look like on that rig. A little 1" decal on the scope tube with 4 little easy to remember numbers. You could almost remember by rhyming it...2 4 6 8...who do we appreciate

5 mph
300 - 2"
400 - 4"
500 - 6"
600 - 9"

It's pretty easy to math from there in the field. With your rig...you don't even need to look at the chart for a ~5 mph wind to ~550 yards, just lean into the wind side edge of kill zone and fill freezer.

Move up to 10 mph and 500 yards you'll move over a foot from center of kill zone...from edge of kill zone maybe 4-6"...easy to see(and do) on game, not as easy on little white square steel thingies. Everyone knows how I feel about competitive target set up vs hunting set up lol. Here's a question, why does PRS not mimic 3d Archery for ultimate hunter prep? Those targets should be full size steel with a flapping kill zone to get your 'hit' but show you reference of game, still show you where you hit on the animal for your call etc. You can do better prep and set up with your own 10-12" high x 20-24" wide gong laying in a farmers field imo.

Anyway, rambling now but likely helps the audience really visualize those bullet flight paths as they relate to wind inside the majority 3/4 second tof distances we tend to stay within on game. These slippery bullets sure have changed the game. I catch myself holding 20th century wind holds more often than not, because I did half of my shooting in the 20th lol, still in kill zones but tend to note I usually hold a couple three inches further into wind than I should. So I know I need to stay closer to the edge of those kill zones than not for most any reasonable shot distance and wind, even with only .5 bc at just under 2400 fps! Wind isn't that scary or needing that much thought these days, maybe for PRS lol.

 

[woods89]

Ya it comes down to picking your system then practicing. It can be practiced and simplified pretty easily on bigger steel but man that's a slippery set up you have there. Here's what my wind chart would look like on that rig. A little 1" decal on the scope tube with 4 little easy to remember numbers. You could almost remember by rhyming it...2 4 6 8...who do we appreciate

5 mph
300 - 2"
400 - 4"
500 - 6"
600 - 9"

It's pretty easy to math from there in the field. With your rig...you don't even need to look at the chart for a ~5 mph wind to ~550 yards, just lean into the wind side edge of kill zone and fill freezer.

Move up to 10 mph and 500 yards you'll move over a foot from center of kill zone...from edge of kill zone maybe 4-6"...easy to see(and do) on game, not as easy on little white square steel thingies. Everyone knows how I feel about competitive target set up vs hunting set up lol. Here's a question, why does PRS not mimic 3d Archery for ultimate hunter prep? Those targets should be full size steel with a flapping kill zone to get your 'hit' but show you reference of game, still show you where you hit on the animal for your call etc. You can do better prep and set up with your own 10-12" high x 20-24" wide gong laying in a farmers field imo.

Anyway, rambling now but likely helps the audience really visualize those bullet flight paths as they relate to wind inside the majority 3/4 second tof distances we tend to stay within on game. These slippery bullets sure have changed the game. I catch myself holding 20th century wind holds more often than not, because I did half of my shooting in the 20th lol, still in kill zones but tend to note I usually hold a couple three inches further into wind than I should. So I know I need to stay closer to the edge of those kill zones than not for most any reasonable shot distance and wind, even with only .5 bc at just under 2400 fps! Wind isn't that scary or needing that much thought these days, maybe for PRS lol.

The area that I hunt rarely has winds under 10 mph. My experience is mostly 3rd and 4th season in CO, and a typical day is 15-20 with gusts over 30 on the ridgetops, constantly swirling, and of course quite unpredictable as you drop into basins. It's pretty dynamic, and I personally don't want to be trying to hold in dead space in that situation.

Now my whitetail hunting here in MO is a different story, and wind doesn't usually play a huge part in my shots, as winds are light and ranges for the most part not that far.

 

[ElPollo]

The area that I hunt rarely has winds under 10 mph. My experience is mostly 3rd and 4th season in CO, and a typical day is 15-20 with gusts over 30 on the ridgetops, constantly swirling, and of course quite unpredictable as you drop into basins. It's pretty dynamic, and I personally don't want to be trying to hold in dead space in that situation.

Now my whitetail hunting here in MO is a different story, and wind doesn't usually play a huge part in my shots, as winds are light and ranges for the most part not that far.

I think that those of us in the west forget that most scope buyers are in the east where you have to really work to find an opportunity for a 200 yard shot, and cross winds are less of a thing because closer shots and forests. That’s why there is such a market for ‘set and forget’ scopes and why it so hard to find a reliable dialer.

Personally, if I was shooting under 200 guranteed, I’d get a 3-9 Trijicon Accupoint with the duplex reticle. If I was having to stretch that a bit and deal with only limited wind, I’d get the same scope with a mil-dot reticle.

Unfortunately, I don’t live in that kind of country. It’ll just about blow the paint off a brand new pick-up around here. And you can watch your dog run away for three days if it’s not too dusty.