General Fitness Preparation vs CrossFit

[ChaseMosby]

What do you guys think is more suitable for training for the back country…

Training general fitness in the gym with a couple days of running throughout the week and a ruck Saturday.

Or

CrossFit based workouts 5 days a week with a ruck on Saturday.


I was doing the MTNTOUGH program which I see as a basic general fitness program and running a couple days a week but have recently started to dabble into CrossFit some just feel like my cardio may be lacking due to it.

Also what do you guys think of MTNTOUGH? Has anyone done a season or two while doing CrossFit and then switch to something more like MTNTOUGH? What was the differences you noticed in the mountains?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coach Chris]

Fitness is specific to task
Backcountry hunting is rucking

Technically speaking there is no such thing as "general fitness".
There is GPP or General Physical Preparation.
Included in that is absolute strength, endurance - strength, absolute endurance, mobility, flexibility, etc...

Hiking and especially rucking, are SPP or Specific Physical Preparation for backcountry hunting.
That's what is going to pay off the most

Good Journey!

 

[Poser]

For the most part, Crossfit is too randomized with too much emphasis on peripheral aspects that are largely only relative to performance in the Crossfit games. In short, too much focus on too many things and all of that comes in a randomized package. Even if your Crossfit box is running a dedicated program, showing up to do that program on whatever days are convenient for you is in fact not following a program, just getting randomized days of a program, which is the same as being random. I'd also argue that having one program for gym full of people at different levels, sex and age groups is in fact not a program and the whole "scaling" aspect does not change that.

That being said, some people love Crossfit and want to do it and if that's what you enjoy, you should do that.

The needs one has for hunting specific fitness, however, are extremely basic.

and while running may be good for off season baseline conditioning, you're going to need more than 1 day of rucking leading up to hunting season.

Don't overthink it: its just hiking with a pack on. Like Coach Chris said, you need specific training for the specific task.

 

[bat-cave]

I agree with what has been shared already. I would add that personally I have found that Crossfit has made much stronger / fitter all around. You could certainly achieve this through other HIIT type programming/coaching etc ... The key for me is that it has forced to me to work on things that I wouldn't make myself do and target different muscle groups.

IMHO, Crossfit is a great way to build up your "general fitness". Augmenting it with some rucking would take it to the next level for hunt prep.

 

[P Carter]

There’s a discussion of CrossFit/hiit versus more “traditional” endurance-based training in this podcast. No need to rehash too much, but i wouldn’t disagree with what folks say above, perhaps noting that, for me, building an aerobic base primarily trail running, with a muscular endurance block of rucking 1 or 2 times a week, 8 weeks before the hunt, has worked really well. (Lifting twice per week throughout, as well.)

Hiking/rucking for the endurance base would likely have the same effect, maybe better because it’s more specific. (The trade off is lower volume, but probably doesn’t matter - as noted, the fitness needs are pretty basic and not crazy hard.)

I have no experience with mtn tough and don’t know what their programs are, but will just note that I very much doubt they have aerobic base training in there. (Maybe they do, and if so, my bad!) Its hard to sell a program that says: go do an hour per day of conversational-pace running or hiking, then twice a week do a progressive overload strength program, and once a week do a muscular endurance workout. Too simple and not “hardcore” enough…

475 | Proven Training Methods for the Mountain Hunter — The Experience Project

Play 475 | Proven Training Methods for the Mountain Hunter — The Experience Project by Hunt Backcountry Podcast on desktop and mobile. Play over 320 million tracks for free on SoundCloud.

m.soundcloud.com

 

[Poser]

The reality is, training for effective hunting just isn’t “sexy”. Dare I say it’s even boring, definitely repetitive.

you can try to dress it up with the seductiveness of complexity and variance all you want, but the more you do that, the less effective the training. The data will support that statement and people will a wealth of experience will also support that claim (unless they are trying to sell you a program).

It’s training afterall, not entertainment.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

I do crossfit 5x a week all year long. After turkey season i add in 45# 6 mile hike on the weekend till the fall. I also add in some crossfit endurance works instead of the Wod at least once a week when season gets closer. Never had an issue in 5yrs. I am not to familiar with "mountain" programs but it seems to me it's geared for folks who don't go to the gym in the off-season.

Hunting is an 80% mental grind...I have seen very fit guys tap after 3 days.

 

[Bodypanel2]

A lot of it depends on where you are starting, what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses. What is backcountry hunting to you and what does it mean; what is your end goal. Does back country mean 2 miles in, shoot huge bull and try to get it out in as few trips as possible by yourself? Or does it mean 10 miles in with a buddy, shoot a mule deer and both carry it out? Can you please define what you are looking to do and where you are starting from?

 

[Poser]

475 | Proven Training Methods for the Mountain Hunter — The Experience Project

Play 475 | Proven Training Methods for the Mountain Hunter — The Experience Project by Hunt Backcountry Podcast on desktop and mobile. Play over 320 million tracks for free on SoundCloud.

m.soundcloud.com

That was a really excellent listen.

Here were my highlights:

-An effective endurance program only consists of no more than 2% HIIT training.
I think a lot of people come to this conclusion after spending some time in the HIIT world. Looking at you, Crossfitters. He tried to walk the line a bit there with not being critical of Crossfit for endurance training, but he does come right out and say it eventually. Like many people, I went through my Crossfit phase. In retrospect of years of training, I now view it as being a "juvenile" phase of effective training. My GF went so far as being a Xfit coach for awhile and we've both agreed that doing so much HIIT volume just makes you feel like shit. You are't aware you feel like shit and/or refuse to admit, but when you eventually drop out of Crossfit, it becomes painfully obvious. Mark Twight has written some about falling for this same HIIT trap in the early 2000s and quickly changing his tune after hitting the wall.

Scott confirms something I've long suspected, but never made a claim about: High volumes of HIIT training actually negatively impacts your aerobic endurance. End of the day, Crossfitters are going to Crossfit because they like it. Arguing about it is tiresome. He states that you can't increase your endurance by "pulling it up" through intensity, rather you "push it up" by training volume spent in lower intensity levels.

-Using cycling for crosstaining other sports is largely ineffective due to how efficient cycling is: You're sitting and there is little stress on the body as a whole. Same applies to swimming. I came to this conclusion back in 2020. I had years where I had mtn biked extensively, even doing multi day bikepacking trips, and found myself a little frustrated with my performance in the mountains under the load of a backpack. I started losing interest in mtn biking, eventually deciding I just flat out hate the user group. Next to SxSs, bike are the worst user group on the trail systems. So, I dropped it entirely. Guess what? my performance under the load of a pack in the mountains improved noticeably.

-Scott Johnston and the likes of Mark Rippetoe both agree that RPE is bullshit for all but the most advanced trainees.

-He does make a case for training single leg movements in the gym, however, for me, at least, I don't find this applicable. His case is single leg stability for difficult terrain. For me personally, I easily spend 1/3rd of time in the mountains off trail, in avy chutes, on scree slopes and on game trails that are effectively the same as being off trail. Of thae last 3 weekends, I don't think I've been on a formal trail a single time. I'm out in that stuff every weekend. I think of it as more of a tolerance for difficult terrain rather than the physical nature of it, but also understand if you don't live in the mountains, you don't have that kind of access. For me, training in the gym, I find the systematic stress of barbell squatting to be more than sufficient for developing and maintaining strength.

-his presentation on training military SF and stating that he has 100% success rate so far with the people he trains for various selections was interesting. His success in effectively training SEALS prompted the military to reach out to him directly. Much like the Crossfit criticism, he does have to push back quite a bit against people who have been almost exclusively conditioned by the HIIT mentality.

 

[Bodypanel2]

Wow, that is awesome, thank you for sharing this.

 

[180ls1]

The average cross-fitter is probably more capable than your average fitness person. Neither are ideal compared to a hunt/hike specific programmed person though.

 

[mtwarden]

I think eventually backcountry hunters (but not all) will gravitate to an endurance based training regime with some sort of progressive strength training mixed in. Spending some time with a backpack on your back to further round things out.

I agree with the comment that this training approach is somewhat boring and not overly sexy. For some reason folks think that training programs that nearly take you to death's door must be better—they're certainly not boring

 

[ChaseMosby]

That was a really excellent listen.

Here were my highlights:

-An effective endurance program only consists of no more than 2% HIIT training.
I think a lot of people come to this conclusion after spending some time in the HIIT world. Looking at you, Crossfitters. He tried to walk the line a bit there with not being critical of Crossfit for endurance training, but he does come right out and say it eventually. Like many people, I went through my Crossfit phase. In retrospect of years of training, I now view it as being a "juvenile" phase of effective training. My GF went so far as being a Xfit coach for awhile and we've both agreed that doing so much HIIT volume just makes you feel like shit. You are't aware you feel like shit and/or refuse to admit, but when you eventually drop out of Crossfit, it becomes painfully obvious. Mark Twight has written some about falling for this same HIIT trap in the early 2000s and quickly changing his tune after hitting the wall.

Scott confirms something I've long suspected, but never made a claim about: High volumes of HIIT training actually negatively impacts your aerobic endurance. End of the day, Crossfitters are going to Crossfit because they like it. Arguing about it is tiresome. He states that you can't increase your endurance by "pulling it up" through intensity, rather you "push it up" by training volume spent in lower intensity levels.

-Using cycling for crosstaining other sports is largely ineffective due to how efficient cycling is: You're sitting and there is little stress on the body as a whole. Same applies to swimming. I came to this conclusion back in 2020. I had years where I had mtn biked extensively, even doing multi day bikepacking trips, and found myself a little frustrated with my performance in the mountains under the load of a backpack. I started losing interest in mtn biking, eventually deciding I just flat out hate the user group. Next to SxSs, bike are the worst user group on the trail systems. So, I dropped it entirely. Guess what? my performance under the load of a pack in the mountains improved noticeably.

-Scott Johnston and the likes of Mark Rippetoe both agree that RPE is bullshit for all but the most advanced trainees.

-He does make a case for training single leg movements in the gym, however, for me, at least, I don't find this applicable. His case is single leg stability for difficult terrain. For me personally, I easily spend 1/3rd of time in the mountains off trail, in avy chutes, on scree slopes and on game trails that are effectively the same as being off trail. Of thae last 3 weekends, I don't think I've been on a formal trail a single time. I'm out in that stuff every weekend. I think of it as more of a tolerance for difficult terrain rather than the physical nature of it, but also understand if you don't live in the mountains, you don't have that kind of access. For me, training in the gym, I find the systematic stress of barbell squatting to be more than sufficient for developing and maintaining strength.

-his presentation on training military SF and stating that he has 100% success rate so far with the people he trains for various selections was interesting. His success in effectively training SEALS prompted the military to reach out to him directly. Much like the Crossfit criticism, he does have to push back quite a bit against people who have been almost exclusively conditioned by the HIIT mentality.

Man thank you so much for this recap. I listened to the episode as well and loved it so thanks for the poster that recommended it. This reply deserves a lot of attention and I believe a lot of people could benefit from this episode.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mule3006Elk]

No experience with crossfit.

I road bike for cardio. For me, is great on the joints, I hate running.

~ 3 months before season I do the following: 20 mile bike ride 7-8/10 as soon as I get home I go on a 2 mile ruck with 31-32 lbs, then finish with a few sets of squats. I do this 5-6 days a week. 1 day a week I go on a 10 mile hike in the mountains mainly off trail to simulate back country hunting. I work from home so I put a 5 gallon bucket in my office. During downtime I step from the floor > bucket > desk top > then reverse order and switch legs. I have found this to be very helpful vs. just sitting at the desk for an entire shift doing no activity.
Works very well for me.

 

[Poser]

No experience with crossfit.

I road bike for cardio. For me, is great on the joints, I hate running.

~ 3 months before season I do the following: 20 mile bike ride 7-8/10 as soon as I get home I go on a 2 mile ruck with 31-32 lbs, then finish with a few sets of squats. I do this 5-6 days a week. 1 day a week I go on a 10 mile hike in the mountains mainly off trail to simulate back country hunting. I work from home so I put a 5 gallon bucket in my office. During downtime I step from the floor > bucket > desk top > then reverse order and switch legs. I have found this to be very helpful vs. just sitting at the desk for an entire shift doing no activity.
Works very well for me.

I personally haven't ran in well over 10 years. I get it all in all in hiking, skinning in the winter and then rowing and box step ups when its in the gym.

I have a local training hill that is 1,000 feet of gain in .8 miles. I'm not sure if anyone can actually run it vs. power hiking it (definitely more efficient to power hike it -never seen anyone flat out running up it) that's perfect for building uphill capacity, be it zone 2 or zone 3-4 training. Thankfully, its closed to mtn bikes so you can go all out or set a steady pace without being interrupted and having to step off the trail every 30 seconds.

 

[justinspicher]

Unless you live in the mountains, you can’t really prep for the mountains. However, doing something is better than nothing in most cases.

 

[WDO]

Like stated, sport specific is best. Especially working the small muscles in the feet on uneven terrain.

I did mtn tough for a bit and my experience was it was a GPP program that had a bias towards mountain hunting, but not quite specific enough. Although they have different programs, so they may have some more specific.

You can overdue it, a prime example being soldiers prepping for SFAS who ruck themselves into overuse injuries, but the best prep IMO is rucking (intelligently) if that makes sense.

Also, as stated above unless you are truly committed to a crossfit schedule, at a gym that runs an actual program, its really just general conditioning and strength, not really specific enough to deem as "mountain training." And you are at the mercy of whoever is running the class/program.

It's kind of nice to see some people reference Mark Twight, discuss zone 2, and other deeper than surface level fitness conversations. Unfortunately, the keep hammering, push through everything, and burning it to the ground doesn't really work unless you have freak genetics. Work ethic matters for sure but there's a reality to it.

 

[JCohHTX]

As a flatlander I've had success with Mtn Tough. I need the structure and it also provides some variety and is progressive. It is a lot of legs and lungs, which is what I don't like doing on my own. I also try to get in extra rucks, especially as the season gets closer.

 

[mtnbound]

CrossFit can be beneficial if you find the right coach but sometimes CF focuses on movements that are not necessarily related to hunting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jchamwv]

I do Crossfit 5-6 days per week, it has made me stronger and increased my endurance. Yes, some of the wods just suck which I also believe helps me to just grind thru rough days on the mountain when I'm climbing thru deadfalls, dealing with bad weather or struggling to find animals. I also ruck 4-5 days per week with my pack weighted from 40 -100lbs. Do whatever makes YOU feel better on the mountain.