Gas Vehicles - Are you concerned new Biden Admin EPA regulations on gas vehicle emissions will restrict or negatively impact your ability to hunt?

[SandyCreek]

No, I'm going to live my life They can sit on a fat one.

 

[DangerRanger]

This will change nothing about my hunting

I’ll add info that instead of buying a new truck last year since truck prices were absolutely bat shit nuts I kept my 2011 f150 that was paid for and bought a Chevy bolt euv as a commuter car to work. It was 33k out the door and I got a 7500$ tax credit this April. Hard to find a nicer new vehicle for 25.5k and my fuel costs are so much lower. So far it has 25k miles and my only maintenance has been a tire rotation.

I understand many live in the middle of nowhere not near larger infrastructure and I have the added benefit of free charging at work, but chevy paid for a free 220v install in my garage and I’ve never charged publicly. The truck goes hunting and the car does family stuff. So far it’s a great combo.

Idk the whole deal with car companies struggling to sell them, it took me 5 months of waiting on a waitlist to get mine. I also 100% agree with an expansion of nuclear energy but the Loud people of both sides think nuclear is the boogeyman.

 

[Choupique]

Where it would affect me is implementing automatic forced derates for emissions faults like the diesels have. That is dangerous, and a really scary thought to have that happen 1300 miles from home and 25 miles from pavement with a front bearing down on you.

 

[mt terry d]

Loving my 3rd Gen Cummins till I die as well as my 1st gen 2004 zx-10. Some (most?) people will infer from those statements that I’m against EV. I am not. At all. There are aspects where an EV beats an ICE hands down. I am however against government interference in the market. To be more precise I am against government interference. To be exact I’m against government.

 

[Q child]

Idk the whole deal with car companies struggling to sell them, it took me 5 months of waiting on a waitlist to get mine. I also 100% agree with an expansion of nuclear energy but the Loud people of both sides think nuclear is the boogeyman.

As far as I can tell from the published statistics, EV sales are increasing every year. It's a growing industry in the US and abroad. 2023 was the biggest year since 2022 which was the biggest year since 2021...
Also, it doesn't really look to me like EVs are cannibalizing hybrids. Hybrid sales are generally increasing as well.

It's funny, I typed in "EV sales" and the top stories were things like:
"Volkswagen electric car sales plunge as Europe returns to petrol"
"Tesla Sales Outlook Worsens with Two Analysts Seeing 2024 Drop"

It's almost like the news is narrowly tailoring their coverage to create an impression of the market that isn't borne out by sales data.

 

[mt terry d]

As far as I can tell from the published statistics, EV sales are increasing every year. It's a growing industry in the US and abroad. 2023 was the biggest year since 2022 which was the biggest year since 2021...
Also, it doesn't really look to me like EVs are cannibalizing hybrids. Hybrid sales are generally increasing as well.

It's funny, I typed in "EV sales" and the top stories were things like:
"Volkswagen electric car sales plunge as Europe returns to petrol"
"Tesla Sales Outlook Worsens with Two Analysts Seeing 2024 Drop"

It's almost like the news is narrowly tailoring their coverage to create an impression of the market that isn't borne out by sales data.

Re: Europe. Could it be they’ve experienced reality before America? Prejudices aside, the reality is that EVs are not ready for Prime Time America. From what those in the business of electric production and transmission tell me, even in situations where they make sense ( short commute to work, parking and charging currently available cheap at home or at work) without other people paying for them (subsidies/tax rebates/incentives) they just don’t pencil out unless you can put a $$ value on virtue signaling (which I have little doubt will be attempted shortly).

 

[Steve O]

As far as I can tell from the published statistics, EV sales are increasing every year. It's a growing industry in the US and abroad. 2023 was the biggest year since 2022 which was the biggest year since 2021...
Also, it doesn't really look to me like EVs are cannibalizing hybrids. Hybrid sales are generally increasing as well.

It's funny, I typed in "EV sales" and the top stories were things like:
"Volkswagen electric car sales plunge as Europe returns to petrol"
"Tesla Sales Outlook Worsens with Two Analysts Seeing 2024 Drop"

It's almost like the news is narrowly tailoring their coverage to create an impression of the market that isn't borne out by sales data.

Yep. I would not believe much of what you read.

The company I work for supplies basically ALL the auto manufacturers in North America.
We are very in tune to what is and what is not sold. EVs are not selling at even 10% of what their projections were. The “traditional” OEMs are getting their a$$es handed to them and are pivioting hard back to ICE products and any of the all EV producers that are still existing other than Tesla are doing so because of massive government handouts.

I’m not citing news reports I’m giving an eye witness account…

 

[Q child]

Re: Europe. Could it be they’ve experienced reality before America? Prejudices aside, the reality is that EVs are not ready for Prime Time America. From what those in the business of electric production and transmission tell me, even in situations where they make sense ( short commute to work, parking and charging currently available cheap at home or at work) without other people paying for them (subsidies/tax rebates/incentives) they just don’t pencil out unless you can put a $$ value on virtue signaling (which I have little doubt will be attempted shortly).

My comment was about sales. Not really electric vehicle efficacy. But here is the energy cost math where I live:

The power utility charges $0.0596 per kWh during peak hours for residential vehicle charging (its a little cheaper in the middle of the night). A Ford F150 Lightning gets about 2miles per kWh. So, that's about $0.03 per mile.
The gas station charges $4.09 per gallon. A 6 cylinder Ford F150 gets about 22 miles per gallon. So, that's about $0.18 per mile.
There is a $7,500 credit for buying an electric vehicle. That is pretty close to the difference in cost between an Lighting and a regular F150 (XLT trim package starting price). At a difference of $0.15 per mile, it takes 50k miles to result in $7,500 in energy savings.
That all pencils out pretty easily with my electric and fuel rates. The next 50k miles saves $7,500 in energy costs.

Yep. I would not believe much of what you read.

The company I work for supplies basically ALL the auto manufacturers in North America.
We are very in tune to what is and what is not sold. EVs are not selling at even 10% of what their projections were. The “traditional” OEMs are getting their a$$es handed to them and are pivioting hard back to ICE products and any of the all EV producers that are still existing other than Tesla are doing so because of massive government handouts.

I’m not citing news reports I’m giving an eye witness account…

I'm not really citing news reports. In fact, I'm saying that the news tends to report this dishonestly.
But sure, lets focus on an industry source:
Ford's published sales numbers claim that their EV sales rose by 18% in 2023. Is Ford being dishonest with their published sales figures?

This is from their 2023 Q4 sales summary:

Ford’s electric vehicles posted record Q4 sales to cap off a record EV year. Ford sold 25,937 EVs in Q4 (up24 percent over Q3 sales) and 72,608 vehicles for the year(up 18 percent). Growth came from America’s best-selling electric truck, F-150 Lightning (up 74 percent for Q4) and Mustang Mach-E sales of 40,771 for the year – up 3 percent for the year and its best year of sales since first launched in 2021.

 

[Bluefish]

My comment was about sales. Not really electric vehicle efficacy. But here is the energy cost math where I live:

The power utility charges $0.0596 per kWh during peak hours for residential vehicle charging (its a little cheaper in the middle of the night). A Ford F150 Lightning gets about 2miles per kWh. So, that's about $0.03 per mile.
The gas station charges $4.09 per gallon. A 6 cylinder Ford F150 gets about 22 miles per gallon. So, that's about $0.18 per mile.
There is a $7,500 credit for buying an electric vehicle. That is pretty close to the difference in cost between an Lighting and a regular F150 (XLT trim package starting price). At a difference of $0.15 per mile, it takes 50k miles to result in $7,500 in energy savings.
That all pencils out pretty easily with my electric and fuel rates. The next 50k miles saves $7,500 in energy costs.

that’s much better economics than I found. For us after time of day service, we were $.06/kwh off peak 10pm to 7am. Peak was $.28/kwh. So if charging 100% at night, similar to your calculations and what I did for the most part. 120k ev miles in 4 years. If having to charge during peak hours it doesn’t make sense. Also for normal service, not time of day service, it was $.12/kwh or $.06 per mile.

 

[OKHunter84]

I would say a big problem is that there's been government interference in the free market and the politicians, news / media does everything they can to keep folks divided. Climate change, EV's and all of these things have been made into tribal issues that should just be looked at objectively.

I doubt there were government incentives to trade horse and buggy travel for cars, when it made sense people did it on their own.

 

[Q child]

Meh, the government has meddled in the auto market for a long time. Bailouts and tariffs. Nothing new to the energy source. GM might not even exist today if the government hadn't bailed them out in 2009.

 

[SonnyDay]

I doubt there were government incentives to trade horse and buggy travel for cars, when it made sense people did it on their own.

Exactly. Internal combustion will go away eventually, probably sooner than we all think.

But as many have said, EVs are not ready for prime-time for those of us that like to get back of beyond for hunting.

 

[kentuckybowman]

Not concerned at all. Their push to electrify is a failure and oil is still the king and will be the king for decades longer.

 

[Bluefish]

Exactly. Internal combustion will go away eventually, probably sooner than we all think.

But as many have said, EVs are not ready for prime-time for those of us that like to get back of beyond for hunting.

I highly doubt that ice will go away. There is simply no other energy source that can equal liquid hydrocarbons for transportation. Batteries need almost a 10x increase to meet current fuel densities. It’s not like EV‘s are new. They have existed for over 120 years. It was only recently that battery technology improved enough for them to viable for some use cases. A 2-3x energy density increase without a price increase would make ev’s about on par with most gas vehicles for all but the most long distance travel.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

I think this will absolutely affect pickup trucks, reliability, and capacities.

You can only squeeze so much “economy” out of an internal combustion engine before something gives.

I also think prices will continue to go through the roof. All of this R&D costs money, and consumers will pay.

 

[northernalpine]

The electric vehicle threat for most is likely decades away and would require a significant overhaul of US infrastructure or a breakthrough in battery technology. (California is in a league of its own on this)

I’m more concerned about the dual-purpose “smart” tech finding its way into standard vehicles these days and the continuous “right-to-repair” fights that have required years of legal proceedings, public outcry, and dependence on voter turnout to repeal.

You don't need to have an electric vehicle for state or federal governments to stop you from driving somewhere they don’t want you to drive.

 

[Steve O]

My comment was about sales. Not really electric vehicle efficacy. But here is the energy cost math where I live:

The power utility charges $0.0596 per kWh during peak hours for residential vehicle charging (its a little cheaper in the middle of the night). A Ford F150 Lightning gets about 2miles per kWh. So, that's about $0.03 per mile.
The gas station charges $4.09 per gallon. A 6 cylinder Ford F150 gets about 22 miles per gallon. So, that's about $0.18 per mile.
There is a $7,500 credit for buying an electric vehicle. That is pretty close to the difference in cost between an Lighting and a regular F150 (XLT trim package starting price). At a difference of $0.15 per mile, it takes 50k miles to result in $7,500 in energy savings.
That all pencils out pretty easily with my electric and fuel rates. The next 50k miles saves $7,500 in energy costs.


I'm not really citing news reports. In fact, I'm saying that the news tends to report this dishonestly.
But sure, lets focus on an industry source:
Ford's published sales numbers claim that their EV sales rose by 18% in 2023. Is Ford being dishonest with their published sales figures?

This is from their 2023 Q4 sales summary:

Ford’s electric vehicles posted record Q4 sales to cap off a record EV year. Ford sold 25,937 EVs in Q4 (up24 percent over Q3 sales) and 72,608 vehicles for the year(up 18 percent). Growth came from America’s best-selling electric truck, F-150 Lightning (up 74 percent for Q4) and Mustang Mach-E sales of 40,771 for the year – up 3 percent for the year and its best year of sales since first launched in 2021.

Great plan…they will make it up on volume:





My family has worked in the auto industry since it started. I worked for GM for 13 years before the 25 in my current company. The only people more dishonest than FJoe are the hierarchy levels of the automakers…they make their numbers say whatever they want whenever they want it to.

I’m not going to argue with you. Ford is incredibly lucky nobody wants their e-vehicles and all of the OEMs are pivoting due to the massive lack of demand from the public.

 

[Stache Attack]

Just put 1057 miles on a 24 duramax two tanks of fuel. Maybe I should throw the generator in the back as I didn’t see a charge station. Yet I didn’t see a Tesla or electric vehicle in those miles…

 

[mt terry d]

Just put 1057 miles on a 24 duramax two tanks of fuel. Maybe I should throw the generator in the back as I didn’t see a charge station. Yet I didn’t see a Tesla or electric vehicle in those miles…

I have a *BOV safety kit I carry in my truck in case I run across an EV out if juice. It looks like a 5 gallon pail with lid painted red with yellow lightning bolts, and a DANGER ! HIGH VOLTAGE!! sticker. $50 cash.

*Bucket of volts

 

[Q child]

From John Lawler, Ford CFO
"Ford Model e is an EV startup within Ford," he said. "As everyone knows, EV startups lose money while they invest in capabilities, develop knowledge, build volume, and gain share."

So, those losses are an investment. It’s like, I lose money when I buy tools from the store, but then later I make money using those tools. It’s kinda cool. Eventually I make more money with the tools than I initially lost buying them.
Tesla didn’t become profitable for 17 years. Think of that. Last year they reportedly profited $15 billion. Pretty wild.