Future

[Marbles]

The vast majority of smelting capacity was built in the early 1900s or before. Most upgrades corresponded to WWII. Closure corresponded to the moving targets on air quality and water in the 80s by the EPA.

In Montana, Stillwater built a small smelter ( private) but they ship overseas for a refinery. In Idaho the Bunker Hill smelter closed as did the Anaconda smelter. After that the ASARC smelter also closed. I believe Kennecott quit accepting outside ores.

I never worked Arizona and New Mexico that was out of our Denver office so I don't know much about Hayden and other smelters down there.

Oregon lost the Hanna nickle smelter in that same period. Tacoma was closed down with the ASARCO collapse. I don't know if the Missouri smelters are still open but I had heard they stopped being a custom operation before I left the US Bureau of Mines.

Yep, the US does not refine nickel, it is a good point, should have talked about nickel in your OP.

In a political move the US Bureau of Mines was defunded in 1996. The USGS became a cover for the US Biological Survey and all my colleges in the USGS told me that in the 90s they were only allowed to identify environmental problems related to mining. If they are your best link to the mineral industry I can guess where you fit in the bigger picture.

If you can take a link to a map of all the copper smelters in the world and us that to draw conclusions about an individual, that says all I will ever need to know about you objectivity.

You could have simply taken the map, pointed out that there are only 3 copper smelters in the US and that none of those are in the top 21 smelters in the world by output. That easily supports your case, and half the work was done for you. When a person does not take the time to make a good argument, it says they do not really care about the subject.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Be able to feed yourself.
It's coming.

 

[Yoder]

The younger generations are increasingly more soft and useless. Nobody wants to work and the most important issues are what pronouns to use and what color to dye your hair. We are on course to be overtaken by China. I believe the Chinese Yuan will be the world standard in the coming years. China has a mission to destroy us. They are focused and have one leader that is not going to change course every four years. Their kids are rewarded for being smart and working hard. Our kids are rewarded online by eating Tide pods and kicking each other in the nuts. I wish I was 20 years older so I would be dead before I see this great nation reduced to a second rate world power.

 

[downthepipe]

As a parent of 4 kids ages 9-16, I get tired of people doggin on young people for being weak. I know it’s always been that way, but my experience is teenagers are working more than ever due to all the jobs paying good wages. Almost every parent I know is just like me - hard working person, raising hard working kids. It’s true that our kids are going to have different ideas, but who can blame them when knowing the world they live in (gun violence and AI revelolution may be their 9/11 or lunar landing). Please just understand every day a group of 9 year old boys still leave their bikes strewn over the lawn and still throw the football in the street/yard. It’s all about parenting and there are plenty of red blooded American parents ensuring a quality childhood.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

The younger generations are increasingly more soft and useless. Nobody wants to work and the most important issues are what pronouns to use and what color to dye your hair. We are on course to be overtaken by China. I believe the Chinese Yuan will be the world standard in the coming years. China has a mission to destroy us. They are focused and have one leader that is not going to change course every four years. Their kids are rewarded for being smart and working hard. Our kids are rewarded online by eating Tide pods and kicking each other in the nuts. I wish I was 20 years older so I would be dead before I see this great nation reduced to a second rate world power.

https://www.newsmax.com/finance/str...-experience-work-ethic/2023/04/06/id/1115295/

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

AI will be the end of us all. Ironic it was predicted by many and glamorized by the Terminator franchise in the early 80s.

 

[ChrisS]

The younger generations are increasingly more soft and useless. Nobody wants to work and the most important issues are what pronouns to use and what color to dye your hair.

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

Spoiler: Guess who

― Socrates ... 2,500 years ago.

 

[Yoder]

As a parent of 4 kids ages 9-16, I get tired of people doggin on young people for being weak. I know it’s always been that way, but my experience is teenagers are working more than ever due to all the jobs paying good wages. Almost every parent I know is just like me - hard working person, raising hard working kids. It’s true that our kids are going to have different ideas, but who can blame them when knowing the world they live in (gun violence and AI revelolution may be their 9/11 or lunar landing). Please just understand every day a group of 9 year old boys still leave their bikes strewn over the lawn and still throw the football in the street/yard. It’s all about parenting and there are plenty of red blooded American parents ensuring a quality childhood.

You probably live in a great place. My personal experience has been parents allowing "children" to live at home until they are 30. Everything paid for including college so they can work to buy stuff they want if they feel like it. Most kids are like indoor cats. Obese, lazy and hardly leave their rooms. It got a little better during covid. I actually seen kids outside. Now it's getting back to normal. Most companies are having a hard time hiring anyone and if they do manage to get somebody they just stop showing up.

 

[Yoder]

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

Spoiler: Guess who

― Socrates ... 2,500 years ago.

It's fitting. We're about to go the same way as the Greeks.

 

[49ereric]

AI will be the end of us all. Ironic it was predicted by many and glamorized by the Terminator franchise in the early 80s.

Actually by the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski

 

[Doc Holliday]

Well, this thread may not last long, but the truth is we are in deep sh!t in this country. Most countries are in serious trouble.
You're a bit older than I, Pony, but I know you can relate: I'm glad I grew up in the timeframe I did. The America my two grandkids will see is a wasteland of woke, Marxist theology. Hell, it already is.

The real shame is that so much of the things we see, hear and read are designed by so few. The 'Soros' effect. But these people control the avenues of media and it causes those things to appear to be the consensus. Americans had better wake up, we are circling the drain.

I have some friends in the UK who share our values, and they said the general consensus abroad is that the US is self-destructing, and that they are genuinely sad for us. It could so easily be stopped, but it won't be.

 

[Beendare]

The sooner folks realize its a balance…and we shut down the fringe elements dictating politics…the better off we will all be.

The ridiculousness has to stop;
Don’t cut any trees- its a renewable resource

No nukes- there are new designs that are safe

Off shore windmills- they cant keep the onshore windmills running due to high maintenance for criss sake…

Transgenders trampling Womens rights- Cmon women, stand up for yourselves

Why do we not have Homeless camps separated for society with clean food and health services…instead of paying them $960/mo to crap in the streets of SF?

We all have a responsibility here…to make an effort to elect a government like that…not just vote for the person promising us stuff…but the person that can stand up to special interests and solve problems.

 

[Beendare]

That goes for hunting rights too…… if you are not involved…. then you are part of the problem.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I have some friends in the UK who share our values, and they said the general consensus abroad is that the US is self-destructing, and that they are genuinely sad for us. It could so easily be stopped, but it won't be.

Fall of the Roman Empire stuff....

 

[Pony Soldier]

I wrote this originally to address our ability to utilize our own resources just to meet the electric car mandates. With the drift of things - is it possible that the purpose of the drugs, guns and lawlessness of the inner cities is to create an environment where the minoriy populations will kill themselves off.

Otherwise wouldn't it make more sense to provide training opportunities in fields where there are jobs than giving them free money to kill themselves.

Just a thought while I wait for an opportunity for the snow to melt.

 

[william schmaltz]

Oil, gas, and coal are not going anywhere. National politicians need them around to get the young voting base out. And deep down, they know the truth (at least the ones pulling the levers at the top). Two weeks ago Biden approved the Willow project and last week he approved the AK LNG to move forward. It mostly stayed under the radar nationally. It's a win-win for the democrats. It will drive out young voters that think the sky is falling because of arctic drilling and think the democratic party will save them, and it will keep gas prices in check for economy-driven voters. Similarly, Democrats had the house, senate, and presidency for two years and didn't do a thing in regard to gun policy they campaigned on. If they went ahead and banned their "assault weapons" like they keep promising, then they risk people passionate about that issue not coming out for the next election and they can no longer play the "republican's fault" after each school shooting. Banning "assault weapons" would just expose the real issue, they sure as hell don't want to be in a situation where they have to deal with that. Those weapons are not going anywhere. Democrat lawmakers were smiling ear to ear when Roe v. Wade was overturned, and they will never do anything to reverse it; it drives out votes by just claiming they will and pointing to the other side for the next couple of decades.

Republicans are the same. They had house and senate majority when the orange democrat was president from 2016-2018. How many of those campaign promises did they push through? None. If you fix the voter's problems, they might not show up the next cycle if they no longer have that issue to vote on.

I always said all that Donald Trump had to do in the 2020 debate was just stand on stage and after each time Joe Biden talked simply say "you've been there 60 years, why haven't you solved these problems if you're so passionate about them?" Just repeat that over and over and he would've won a landslide. Same with the next debate, anytime gun control is brought up, all the republican needs to say is, "you had the majority for 2 years, why didn't you do it if it's so important to you?" But they're too stupid for that sort of logical argument.

 

[dutch_henry]

@ChrisS, good quote. People have been talking about the downfall of civilization--and the decline of the younger generation--since before Socrates. Ironically, today, many of them are around to complain because those younger generations cured their cancers, engineered the safety features in their vehicles, intervened in local conflicts before they spilled over into world wars, and so on. You get the point.

I'm constantly blown away at the capabilities and positive impact these young people have. I just wish there were more of them.

 

[ChrisS]

It's fitting. We're about to go the same way as the Greeks.

Well, have fun in your bunker.

Nothing but scared old folks whining about "back in my day." Somebody wrote the '70s were the pinnacle? The 70s? Seriously? I'm sure everyone who was alive in the 70s were honor students, worked diligently, saved every dime, never touched alcohol, nor had sex out of wedlock, or drove fast, or played fast and loose with the rules ... They were such a perfect generation that they raised successive generations of weaklings too scared of their own shadow and are now ruining the world.

 

[william schmaltz]

They were such a perfect generation that they raised successive generations of weaklings too scared of their own shadow and are now ruining the world.

As I've always said, millennials (and generations after) didn't ask for the participation trophies.

 

[dutch_henry]

I think the dirty secret is that on the whole, we as Americans enjoy more prosperity, more affordable goods and services, and better trade relations (which also have the effect of stabilizing geopolitical tensions) when we go offshore.

Marx hated industrialization and wanted everything to be local, small scale, and artisan-based. Otoh, the free market finds efficiencies, sometimes brutal ones, that mostly reduce the cost of doing business and the cost of goods and services to consumers.

Sure, we could bring everything back onshore. But we'd all suffer. It would require replacing our democracy with some sort of dictatorship or communist regime, and it would make us hugely vulnerable to foreign powers whose supply chains are dispersed all over the globe. In the end, maybe we'd end up looking like China ($3.78 an hour for manual labor) or even India ($1.56 an hour).

Except in times of war, when we need to safeguard sensitive goods, technologies, and services, it's often better to distribute production globally. We still retain the intellectual capital and plum pieces. But in some ways, all that trade becomes the glue that bonds allies and prevents a state of continuous war.

All that said I freaking love seeing that "Made in the USA" label and vote with my wallet as much as I can. And I'm old enough to be nostalgic for some of what our country has lost. Or traded for a "better" way of life.