Free float vs tip pressure bedding?

[slatebuilder]

Ive searched for them and found a few that have gone pretty quickly.

Very limited experience shooting "modern" rifles. Wood stocks and blued metal are where my experience ends.

For whatever it is worth, maybe check out RW Hart in Necsopeck Pennsylvania. They do a rifle accurization program. It involves skim bedding the action, lapping the bolt lugs, trigger work, crowning the barrel, and a few other things. It will not turn your rifle into a 1000 yard hammer, but it may be something that helps your old 700 along a bit, making it better than what it currently is. It’s understandable to like old rifles, just have realistic expectations.

I have one rifle that has been accurized by them. It is a beretta mato in 280 Remington. My father had the procedure done to it years ago. I have it now. The rifle is extremely easy to load for and surprisingly easy to shoot. There are 5 different loads using 3 different bullets that it will shoot between 1.3 amd 1.5 MOA 10 shot groups with for me. I can shoot out to 585 at our range, there is no problem consistently hitting the desired target at that range with this rifle.

In full disclosure I have no idea what it shot like before he had them work on it. The work might have helped or it might have shot good before they worked on it too. He is a leupold and 3 shot group guy, so he does not truly know either.

 

[freezerfull]

Sand down that pressure point, making sure the barrel is freefloating. Bedding it won’t make it shoot better. It’s not needed to get accuracy.

Bedding is definitely needed to get consistency. Consistency as in same POI day after day through changing conditions. Even more so with a free floated barrel.

Many rifles can shoot tight groups yet have little consistency. This is common with non bedded rifles, rifles without enough action bolt torque and rifle designs that use barrel pressure points.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Bedding is definitely needed to get consistency. Consistency as in same POI day after day through changing conditions. Even more so with a free floated barrel.

Many rifles can shoot tight groups yet have little consistency. This is common with non bedded rifles, rifles without enough action bolt torque and rifle designs that use barrel pressure points.

I’ve never had to bed any rifle that I’ve owned to make that rifle consistently accurate. Folks seem to love to bed actions, though. If you like bedding action, have at it. I just never had the need for it.

 

[freezerfull]

I’ve never had to bed any rifle that I’ve owned to make that rifle consistently accurate. Folks seem to love to bed actions, though. If you like bedding action, have at it. I just never had the need for it.

Fair enough, glad it’s working well. Not sure if you’re talking wood stocks without pillars or bedding specifically. It’s a fact that wood will move due to environmental changes and will compress over time. I am just encouraging the OP to strongly consider adding pillars and bedding this thing if he’s planning to float it. It’s 2 evenings of work.

With wood and to a lesser extent laminated, there is nothing to handle the compression and the inlet does not provide a tight enough mechanical lock to keep the action in place as the wood expands, contracts and compresses. The more you tighten the action screws the more the wood compresses. In extreme cases action bolts can even end up finger loose that were previously properly torqued without spinning due to humidity and compression of wood due to no pillars and bedding.

Pillars prevent the compression problem with wood stocks, bedding the lug and action prevent the wood stock from imparting its changing pressure on the action (more a consistency concern) and keep it from moving from use due to a poor fitting inlet (more a accuracy concern).

I do agree that bedding does not make the following setups more consistent most of the time: better than average factory synthetic stocks (tikka comes to mind), stocks with aluminum bedding blocks, some carbon bedding blocks (pillars still should be used IMO) and metal chassis systems. It definitely doesn’t hurt though to skim bed all of the above sans the chassis tho.

 

[Kaleb]

I thought handloading was required.

Yes, I load for it as 6mm Rem isn't always easy to come by. 95gr SSTs over IMR4895 is what I typically run but I'm practicing and emptying some brass to move to a slightly heavier bullet.

Have you tried other loads for it? That could be the best load possible for the rifle or you could really wake it up with simply trying a different powder.

I'd second what folks have been saying about floating the barrel and bedding it. You typically only change one thing at a time so you can see what it actually was that helped but you have a few pretty cost effective things to try. I'd address the stock by floating and bedding. I would try some different loads and just start with the powder first. All barrels are different but that bullet is normally pretty accurate. Not to say the powder isn't. I did not notice scope and mounting set up but that is also something to consider.

I totally get wanting to keep and use something like this. I would never sell it either. My first rifle was a model 700 243 and about 10 years ago after building/learning what I liked I sent it to GAP and had them rebarrel it to a 6cm. I basically rebuilt it except for the acton and bolt and couldn't be happier. Oh it might have made more sense financially to just sell it and buy a new rifle but that wasn't an option to me. With a little time and money you could make your rifle whatever you want it to be within reason. Or it could be that with a little load work stock work and possibly new scope and mounts it could already be perfect.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Fair enough, glad it’s working well. Not sure if you’re talking wood stocks without pillars or bedding specifically. It’s a fact that wood will move due to environmental changes and will compress over time. I am just encouraging the OP to strongly consider adding pillars and bedding this thing if he’s planning to float it. It’s 2 evenings of work.

With wood and to a lesser extent laminated, there is nothing to handle the compression and the inlet does not provide a tight enough mechanical lock to keep the action in place as the wood expands, contracts and compresses. The more you tighten the action screws the more the wood compresses. In extreme cases action bolts can even end up finger loose that were previously properly torqued without spinning due to humidity and compression of wood due to no pillars and bedding.

Pillars prevent the compression problem with wood stocks, bedding the lug and action prevent the wood stock from imparting its changing pressure on the action (more a consistency concern) and keep it from moving from use due to a poor fitting inlet (more a accuracy concern).

I do agree that bedding does not make the following setups more consistent most of the time: better than average factory synthetic stocks (tikka comes to mind), stocks with aluminum bedding blocks, some carbon bedding blocks (pillars still should be used IMO) and metal chassis systems. It definitely doesn’t hurt though to skim bed all of the above sans the chassis tho.

Both wood and synthetic stocks.

 

[freezerfull]

Have you tried other loads for it? That could be the best load possible for the rifle or you could really wake it up with simply trying a different powder.

Good point to bring up!

Start by making sure action bolts are tight and make sure the pressure point is actually consistently applying pressure to the barrel at the foreend. Once these are verified I think you are in the best position to shoot “tight groups” with this setup. Try some different loads to see if it shoots better with any of them. Do not use a bipod or hard rest under the foreend, shoot off bags or over a pack. If it never improves with other bullets and loads I’d assume that’s about the best the barreled action can do. If it shoots better with a different load I’d proceed with the float and bed since at least you know the gun is capable of what you’re looking for and you’ll have an idea of what it likes.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

I always do the following:
1.) Bed the action
2.) Assuming the stock is stiff enough, free float up to the barrel shank. When I free float, I will fold normal printer barrel in fours. If that thickness can slide in fine. I'm good to go. The only reason I do that versus something like a dollar bill, is depending on barrel thickness, sometimes that heat can cause the barrel to expand just enough to tough the stock and cause fliers.

I also do not shoot 5+ round groups in my hunting rifle. It is NOT a competition rifle so the volume of fire is not needed. What I will do is the following:
1.) Shoot multiple 3 shot groups and allow the barrel to cool between each group. While shooting said groups, keep a chrono on so it can get a good velocity reading of 9+ shots.
2.) Shoot multiple 1 shot "cold bore" shots to see it in relation to how my groups are.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I have made over 100 stocks in the last 50 years and barrel harmonics need to be considered . I would float it and do like what was mentioned already, shim toward the end of the stock and start moving it back towards the action. I am sure you will find the "sweet spot
.