Fragmenting bullets versus controlled expanding bullets

[Southern Lights]

I have been reading more from Phil Shoemaker, famous Brown Bear guide in Alaska for more than 40 years. He is what people would here would dismissively call a "Fudd." But, ignoring experience like his would be a tremendous mistake.

Here are some gems from him:

"I make my living cleaning up messes caused by self proclaimed excellent shots and experienced hunter on Brown Bear hunts. In over twenty five years the over whelming majority were caused by the hunter using a rifle he could not handle.

When a hunter shows up with a well worn 7mm or 30-06 and a sensible scope I know he is going home with a trophy.

I don't have a minimum caliber I require a hunter bring but anything less than a .270 is a stunt and anything over a .375 usually ego."


"I have seen light for calibers kill big bears very quickly but also seen miserable results with them as well so I prefer large caliber bullets heavy enough to give full penetration first and velocity second"


"But quality bullets are your best insurance. I am not on anyone's payroll but , like anyone else, I do have favorites as I see an awfully lot of bears killed. Nosler Partitions, Barnes X (and their variations), Swift A-frames, Trophy Bonded, Grand Slams, North Forks, Kodiaks and Fail Safes are all on my A list."

 

[FredH]

I have been reading more from Phil Shoemaker, famous Brown Bear guide in Alaska for more than 40 years. He is what people would here would dismissively call a "Fudd." But, ignoring experience like his would be a tremendous mistake.

Here are some gems from him:

"I make my living cleaning up messes caused by self proclaimed excellent shots and experienced hunter on Brown Bear hunts. In over twenty five years the over whelming majority were caused by the hunter using a rifle he could not handle.

When a hunter shows up with a well worn 7mm or 30-06 and a sensible scope I know he is going home with a trophy.

I don't have a minimum caliber I require a hunter bring but anything less than a .270 is a stunt and anything over a .375 usually ego."


"I have seen light for calibers kill big bears very quickly but also seen miserable results with them as well so I prefer large caliber bullets heavy enough to give full penetration first and velocity second"


"But quality bullets are your best insurance. I am not on anyone's payroll but , like anyone else, I do have favorites as I see an awfully lot of bears killed. Nosler Partitions, Barnes X (and their variations), Swift A-frames, Trophy Bonded, Grand Slams, North Forks, Kodiaks and Fail Safes are all on my A list."

It appears fragmenting bullets are not on his list of favorites.

 

[FredH]

Thanks.

 

[Southern Lights]

It appears fragmenting bullets are not on his list of favorites.

Here are some other things he's said. These Fudds are all alike with this horrible advice.

"Excess power in either a scope or cartridge is poor compensation for experience and knowledge of how and when to shoot."

"I have always found it interesting that most of the problems I see as a guide with clients missing is due to their having their scopes turned up to the highest power; while most experienced users I have known that use variables end up setting them somewhere between 3 and 5 power. Go figure."

"If you can't do it with a 30-06 and a 4x Leupold then you probably can't do it with anything."

"Like any other hunting, it's the bullet that does all the killing - and where the shooter places it that determines how quickly the animal dies.

It is amazing how very little all the other stuff - like bullet diameter and velocity - changes any of the first two.
And how much you paid for you scope, or who built your rifle, or how well you once shot off the bench, doesn't matter a bit."

 

[JJMarsh]

So it seems "fragmenting" is a good thing and little is said about controlled expansion in hunting bullets here. I can see a fragmenting bullet having an edge when the bullet is of small diameter and 2x expansion would only mean .44 and you only have less than 80 grains of bullet to start with. The term controlled expanding and "hard bullets" is misleading as most bullets are designed to expand quickly but hold onto a percentage of weight. That is the controlled part. Leaving Mono bullets out of this argument it appears bullets that fragment to a great degree are going to throw lead particles around freely. Unless you like that wild lead metal taste occasionally not a good thing. In fact many lead cored bullets fragment to some degree, the Partition is a serious offender and yes is a good killer because of it. For years the standard thought on bullet construction was 2x expansion and 60-70% weight retention. Meaning 30-40% of the bullet turned into fragments. Today using smaller calibers that percentage has grown to 50% or more. Many of todays match style hunting bullets fragment a lot and destroy a lot of tissue, killing well. Many boat tailed hunting bullets are constructed to expand at lower velocities because the idea was to use them at longer ranges. I am a big fan of fragmenting bullets for use on things I am not planning on eating like coyotes but prefer to limit the spread of lead in the deer meat. I truly dislike mono's because of crappy performance from early Barnes designs, possibly the newer designs would be ok. This all being opined upon in a rambling manner I never had any real problems getting quick kills using standard cup and core controlled expanding bullets in diameters from 6.5 up. Had a few sketchy results with 6MM's when using them like I would a 30-06. I always considered using the .224 rounds on deer as reliable under easy shot conditions at medium ranges. Not as 400 yard wonders.

You raise valid points about the fragmentation versus controlled expansion debate. While fragmenting bullets can deliver devastating terminal performance on varmints and predators, they do risk contaminating meat when used on game animals. The key is matching bullet design to both the caliber and intended use.

For deer-sized game, I've found bonded core bullets in .264 to .308 diameters offer the best balance - they expand reliably while retaining enough weight for deep penetration. The 6mm and smaller calibers do require more careful bullet selection, especially at extended ranges where velocity drops.

Modern monolithics have improved significantly, though I share your preference for traditional cup-and-core designs in most hunting scenarios. As you noted, shot placement and realistic range expectations matter more than extreme fragmentation.