Fragmenting bullets versus controlled expanding bullets

[mt terry d]

However, for the type of hunting I do, I would be more concerned about high impact velocities at close range. Is this a valid concern? How does this small/light/fragmenting bullet philosophy play out at much shorter ranges, for example, almost point-blank range out to 100 yards?

I killed a coyote broadside at about 15-20 yards, 223, 77TMK
exit hole was @ 1 1/2" diameter.

 

[FredH]

https://static.hornady.media/site/hornadyle/files/ballistic-gelatin-comparisons-1-3.pdf

You should probably do some reading on calibrated gel, why it's the standard, and why clear gel is a no-go. Link reposted from prior page, some relevant bits in red.

Okay then boo on clear gel. Now about posts # 49 and #50?

 

[WTFJohn]

Okay then boo on clear gel. Now about posts # 49 and #50?

#49: at 1770 fps the bullet tumbled for over 18" (talk about wallop!), on his third or forth shot into the same section of gel (meaning less density in the gel, exaggerating penetration and showing less than realistic expansion). At ~2000 fps it fragmented, sending shards of the jacket multiple inches off the path of most retained weight section of bullet. At higher velocities, it fragmented with shards exiting the block 3-5" away from the permanent wound cavity. That's a lethal bullet where I come from.

#50: .223 TMK; penetrated over 12" before exiting the block at the lowest velocity, leaving a 3"+ wound cavity. I don't care about the larger caliber videos. No one has ever contested that larger calibers do more damage. The conversation always has been what caliber/bullet does the damage that is needed to kill the hunted animal.

What regularly hunted ungulates or other animals would not die from the wounds shown in the videos you posted? There's a 517 page thread here with over 10,000 posts from various people (probably even folks near you) that shows the viability of that caliber and bullet, provided it's at a velocity at which it will upset.

Here's a few measurements I took on a mature CO cow elk carcass. I even included a few measurements for the TX heart shot crowd. This is obviously no BOAL, but it's bigger than any deer (whitetail or mule). The gel blocks in the videos are 6x6x16.

Pic 1: Add 4-5" if you go through the shoulder here. Still a dead elk at 18" penetration.


Pic 2: Full carcass pass through is 22". This is exaggerated vs reality since it's been hanging over a week. Still a dead elk at 18" penetration.



Pic 3: Full pass through behind the shoulder is 18" including ribs and skin. Dead elk.


Pic 4: TX Magnum special. Nuff said.


Pic 5: Slipping it behind the ribs on that BOAL quartering away. Dead elk.

 

[FredH]

#49: at 1770 fps the bullet tumbled for over 18" (talk about wallop!), on his third or forth shot into the same section of gel (meaning less density in the gel, exaggerating penetration and showing less than realistic expansion). At ~2000 fps it fragmented, sending shards of the jacket multiple inches off the path of most retained weight section of bullet. At higher velocities, it fragmented with shards exiting the block 3-5" away from the permanent wound cavity. That's a lethal bullet where I come from.

#50: .223 TMK; penetrated over 12" before exiting the block at the lowest velocity, leaving a 3"+ wound cavity. I don't care about the larger caliber videos. No one has ever contested that larger calibers do more damage. The conversation always has been what caliber/bullet does the damage that is needed to kill the hunted animal.

What regularly hunted ungulates or other animals would not die from the wounds shown in the videos you posted? There's a 517 page thread here with over 10,000 posts from various people (probably even folks near you) that shows the viability of that caliber and bullet, provided it's at a velocity at which it will upset.

Here's a few measurements I took on a mature CO cow elk carcass. I even included a few measurements for the TX heart shot crowd. This is obviously no BOAL, but it's bigger than any deer (whitetail or mule). The gel blocks in the videos are 6x6x16.

Pic 1: Add 4-5" if you go through the shoulder here. Still a dead elk at 18" penetration.
View attachment 836353

Pic 2: Full carcass pass through is 22". This is exaggerated vs reality since it's been hanging over a week. Still a dead elk at 18" penetration.
View attachment 836352


Pic 3: Full pass through behind the shoulder is 18" including ribs and skin. Dead elk.
View attachment 836354

Pic 4: TX Magnum special. Nuff said.
View attachment 836355

Pic 5: Slipping it behind the ribs on that BOAL quartering away. Dead elk.
View attachment 836356

So a bullet that just travels in any direction other than the direction it was aimed is ok with you? Tumbling bullets though better than point on without expansion are nowhere near as destructive as bullets that expand with our without fragments. If every shot was a broadside behind the shoulder hit you wouldn't need much of a gun now would you?

 

[Formidilosus]

So a bullet that just travels in any direction other than the direction it was aimed is ok with you? Tumbling bullets though better than point on without expansion are nowhere near as destructive as bullets that expand with our without fragments. If every shot was a broadside behind the shoulder hit you wouldn't need much of a gun now would you?

The majority of what you post about bullets is objectively incorrect, but the bolded and underlined portion is ridiculously so.