Floorless Tipi or Double Wall shelter ?

[gostovp]

Ok I need some feedback… I’m really on the fence about using a SO Cimmaron / stove combo vs a doublewall freestanding tent (like the BA Copper Spur) for a mid Sept archery elk hunt. So full disclosure I’m an idiot and made an impulse buy last year of a SO Cimarron and a titanium stove thinking my son and I would spike out with it during our CO trip last year… well we ended up truck camping for the trip using our Kodiak FlexBow 10x14 (great truck camp tent btw…) and never really tested it in hunting conditions ( I’ve tested it here in WI but haven’t used it as much as I should to be 100% comfortable with). I’ve camped with and am comfortable with doublewall shelters.

I guess I’m super concerned about condensation in the Cimarron. There will be two of us in the tent (3 guys on the trip but the third will be in a separate tent). The reason to bring the stove is to dry gear up and for a quick warmup at night or in the morning if needed…. My sleep system is designed to handle temps assuming no stove.

Thoughts? Feedback? Real world experience with condensation management?

 

[Poser]

Condensation can be a real thing in a singe wall shelter. If you have a stove, you’ll clear that right up (with exception of the bottom 6-12 inches). Or you can bring a small sponge or silicone dish scraper and do it manually. Or, just don’t worry about it and let the sun handle it.
Thruhikers tend to use single wall tents and they are on the move for the entirety of the day. Most just pull their shelters out while taking a break and let the sun dry them in 90 seconds.

The only thing I really don’t like about condensation is packing up a went shelter. Frozen Condensation on the inside of the shelter when you wake up? So what?

 

[SuperDUECE22]

Leave the stove at the truck and just rely on your sleep system. Have a small campfire in the morning or evening if needed. This way less weight to pack inn, zero condensation and a little breathing room inside that tent, otherwise can get pretty tight in there with 2 guys and stove.

 

[gostovp]

Does the stove help or hurt the condensation? I guess I assumed the wood stove would also help dry out the ground and help reduce condensation (knowing site selection is also a factor in condensation). . I’m practicing pitching the tent sides higher with guy lines to get more air flow.

 

[Poser]

Does the stove help or hurt the condensation? I guess I assumed the wood stove would also help dry out the ground and help reduce condensation (knowing site selection is also a factor in condensation). . I’m practicing pitching the tent sides higher with guy lines to get more air flow.

The stove will totally dry out the tent, but heat rises, so damp earth will, for the most part, remain damp. Get the stove going in the morning and you’ll still have a condensation line of 6-12 inches near the bottom of the tent even though the micro environment inside of the tent will be warm and dry.

 

[11boo]

Pretty small tent with 2 and the stove. There will be condensation, and if it rains it will be bad w/o a wood stove. I have the 8 man tipi and I speak from experience.

 

[gostovp]

I think I’ll order up some of those SO line locks and give the Cimarron a go…

 

[PNW bow hunter]

September in the mountains can give you all kinds of weather.

Where I elk hunt the most, I’m only in the 5k-7k range of elevation. We hunt in super hotdry weather. Cloudy days, cloudy days with a little bit of rain, days and days of pouring rain, off and on snow, and almost a week straight of snow!

Lots of different weather conditions. I keep a close eye on the weather forecast, and make my final decision based off the last weather check before I leave my truck for a backpack hunt. Even if the forecast is good, I have the gear in the truck for bad weather. A 4 day backpack trip in early September, I can rely on the forecast usually. A 7-10 backpack hunt after mid September, the forecast is usually pretty worthless after the first 3-4 days. I am just packed for any weather conditions if where I am at is farther then I would want to hike back out to the truck for gear.

With all that being said, the Cimarron and a stove can handle all those conditions well. A better choice than a double walled tent with a floor, and no stove in my opinion.

 

[mtwarden]

Having the Cimmaron elevated with extended guy lines really helped. If the weather got really bad, I could bring it all the way down to the ground (of course then you don’t get the ventilation)

 

[gostovp]

Awesome, thanks for the feedback!

 

[mtwarden]

With two guys you can split up the weight of the tent/stove pretty easy.

Obviously a double wall, free standing tent will be lighter and quicker to setup and you can still split up the load between two.

You might consider making your decision closer to your trip- warmer/drier forecast- double wall tent; colder/wetter forecast- Cimmaron.

 

[kendall04]

Cimmaron is awesome in the right conditions. As others have said condensation can be an issue depending on weather, vegetation and such. Don’t pitch it on green grassy areas or it’ll be raining on the inside. On a windy ridge with no moisture I’ve had it work great without the stove.

 

[Chape1rm]

I've had some bone chilling nights in my Cimarron and a stove is worth the trouble and weight if your dealing with snow or Temps below 15 degrees or so in my opinion. The Cimarron is still a great stormworthy shelter w/o the stove. Condensation is a thing but I've never minded it much. Worse thing is having to pack up a wet tipi. The worse the weather gets use more guy lines. Reflective cordage is nice so you don't trip over it when you get up to piss or whatever.

I really like the stove for drying out gear. I tie a clothesline around the loops at the peak for wet clothing and a prusik knot around the pole to hang boots from. Nothing is nicer than waking up and putting on warm, dry boots and socks. The best part is the heat creates an updraft and you don't really notice any smells. I've also used the stove to melt snow for water and you can cook on it too.

Split the weight with your buddy. I think the carbon pole is worth taking if your going the tipi route.

That being said I have zero experience using a double wall.

 

[IdahoSkinner]

I agree with Chape and Poser. I have a SO Redcliff with the SXL stove and have used it in all conditions from July to late October snow. I have the half liner SO makes which I sleep below to avoid getting rained on when I use the stove.

I’ve found the ground doesn’t really dry out from the stove as others have said. Also the stove is elevated with all thread rods so the ground never gets really warm compared to the rest of the tent. It’s not uncommon to wake up with frost for the first 3 feet up the tent walls.

Have fun keeping that stove going on a below zero night haha! I take a folding survival saw when I know I’m going to be in snow for a couple days. This way I can cut round lengths of small logs to burn longer at night which helps. Just using broken twigs is an exercise in futility if you want to keep it going all night. I had some mini donkeys for packing for a couple seasons and I’d have them carry those duraflame logs in for me. One of those broken in half is the bees knees, but WAY to heavy to carry on your back.

I do cook on my stove when I take it so that saves the weight of a JetBoil or whatever you use and +1 on the carbon pole.

 

[Chape1rm]

WTS - SO Redcliff/ Large Uturn Stove

Redcliff and Stove bought new last year maybe 30 nights used dual zipper brown Redlciff. (seam sealed) carbon pole all stakes nice carrying case for pole and tent Large Uturn 8' pipe also 6'pipe For LBO or smaller shelter nice carrying case for stove and pipe complete package ready to go...

rokslide.com

 

[Abrugger12]

Currently have a Argali Absaroka 4P, no stove. Running 3 guys in it come sept Archery. Im looking to get input on floor system and if its worth it for any positive result in moisture managment or if its strictly from a cleanliness standpoint. Ill most likely run Tyvek as its cheap and durable. any input would be great thank you

 

[BROOKS5]

Currently have a Argali Absaroka 4P, no stove. Running 3 guys in it come sept Archery. Im looking to get input on floor system and if its worth it for any positive result in moisture managment or if its strictly from a cleanliness standpoint. Ill most likely run Tyvek as its cheap and durable. any input would be great thank you

I imagine most guys running floorless tents won't have much experience with a ground cover. Not having a floor has some serious advantages, especially in crappy weather if your going to be coming in and out much. That said a full ground cover should help with condensation quite a lot in theory. Probably worth a shot as with 3 guys and imagining everyone will want a ground cover to sleep on, there won't be much left to cover in that Absaroka anyways. Would be interested to hear how it works out for ya either way.
Happy hunting.

 

[eamyrick]

Spent a week in Alaska in the rain everyday down to the high 30s. Took a Seek to CO down to freezing. Spent last week in Idaho fishing for 6 nights with nights down to 44. I love the simplicity of the floorless design and the extra room for weight it offers. Condensation can happen in a variety of tents but I’ve never had it so bad in the SEEK that it drips but you have to be conscious getting in and out. The sun usually dries it out in an hour or so. If not I just throw it in the bottom of my pack wet next to my sleeping bag that stays in a dry bag.

One of my favorite things about two guys in the Cimmaron is that two guys can set up lightweight chairs next to the pole and sit in crappy weather vs being stuck on the ground. I’ve also been bone dry 100% of the time despite some absolute crazy rain conditions (Alaska) that would have certainly meant a wet tent had I been in and out of a bathtub design.

 

[eamyrick]

Lastly, the question you should be asking regarding Tipi vs traditional double wall is footprint space. The Tipi has a large footprint and doesn’t fit into tight mountain spots as easily as a smaller double wall. Guys say not to put them on grass dude to condensation but sometimes that’s the most flat, open space.

 

[Solitude]

Sept archery…double wall tent all the way IMO.