floor vs. floorless?

[Rucker61]

If buying another mid I would get a Bearpaw designs Luna 5! 36 oz in silnylon and 29 oz in cuben before stakes. That 100 sq ft of covered area for right around 2 pounds is impressive.

My silnylon Luna 5 with extra guy-outs on the back corners, perimeter netting, netting door, stuff sack and stove jack weighs 3 lbs 10 oz.

 

[luke moffat]

Good to know thanks! Yeah I would do without all the netting and stove jack so I am guessing it would be roughly a pound less.

We shall see, hard not to like the big pyramids tipis.

 

[charvey9]

One thing often not considered about the weight of floorless shelters is the weight of whatever you use to pitch them. Trekking poles are the standard, but if you don't normally carry trekking poles consider that added weight as part of your floorless setup. What I've found, when you add the weight of a set of trekking poles to your floorless shelter you are right there with most lightweight freestanding setups.

I don't like to use poles, so the weight argument is kind of a wash.

 

[mtnclimber]

One thing often not considered about the weight of floorless shelters is the weight of whatever you use to pitch them. Trekking poles are the standard, but if you don't normally carry trekking poles consider that added weight as part of your floorless setup. What I've found, when you add the weight of a set of trekking poles to your floorless shelter you are right there with most lightweight freestanding setups.

I don't like to use poles, so the weight argument is kind of a wash.

I use a petzl snow scopic so im worried it wouldn't work as well as a trekking pole. And definitely wouldn't be able to pitch anything that required two poles since I only have one

 

[AK Troutbum]

One thing often not considered about the weight of floorless shelters is the weight of whatever you use to pitch them. Trekking poles are the standard, but if you don't normally carry trekking poles consider that added weight as part of your floorless setup. What I've found, when you add the weight of a set of trekking poles to your floorless shelter you are right there with most lightweight freestanding setups.

I don't like to use poles, so the weight argument is kind of a wash.

You can use a stick if your below tree line. I purchased a carbon fiber pole from Ruta Locura that I can adjust from 60-68", breaks down pretty small and, weighs 5.5 oz. Combine this with my cuben fiber Hyperlite Mountain Gear Ultamid 2 and, the total wt. of the shelter with pole, and guy lines is 23 oz. That's for a 64 sq ft shelter. You won't find a freestanding tent anywhere near that size that's anywhere near that light. I also think that when it comes to weathering high winds and heavy snows, it's pretty hard to beat a mid.

 

[lee peet]

Interesting. I've had the opposite experience with tarp shelters myself. I'm not saying anything bad about the Hilleberg. If I know I'm going to be in the nastiest weather, that's what I'm using. But with that said, I have used a few different types of tarp shelters in some really nasty and wet weather and condensation has not been an issue for me. Tarps have so much venting that I think they are the best option for wet weather if you are going with a single wall shelter.

I dont use a ground sheet in my tarp so that might be why but have woken up soaked every morning. I like the idea of it if it wasnt for the condensation.

 

[dotman]

I've been using tarps for the last 3 years and haven't had condensation issues but I have heard of a few others with this problem as well, not sure why the different experiences.

 

[luke moffat]

You can use a stick if your below tree line. I purchased a carbon fiber pole from Ruta Locura that I can adjust from 60-68", breaks down pretty small and, weighs 5.5 oz. Combine this with my cuben fiber Hyperlite Mountain Gear Ultamid 2 and, the total wt. of the shelter with pole, and guy lines is 23 oz. That's for a 64 sq ft shelter. You won't find a freestanding tent anywhere near that size that's anywhere near that light. I also think that when it comes to weathering high winds and heavy snows, it's pretty hard to beat a mid.

Those things look sweet for sure...how many oz in stakes are you taking with it?? 3-4 oz worth of stakes? So about 27 oz total weight? Very cool indeeed!! My BPD Pyratent in cuben I believe is 21 oz with stakes but I use trekking poles to pitch it. Seem to be similar size shelters. I agree since I started using a Mid as a shelter in 2010 its hard to get away from them.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Those things look sweet for sure...how many oz in stakes are you taking with it?? 3-4 oz worth of stakes? So about 27 oz total weight? Very cool indeeed!! My BPD Pyratent in cuben I believe is 21 oz with stakes but I use trekking poles to pitch it. Seem to be similar size shelters. I agree since I started using a Mid as a shelter in 2010 its hard to get away from them.

I'm right at 29 ounces all inclusive. That is including 16 stakes ( 8 mini groundhog stakes and 8-9" MSR twister stakes). If I don't bring the pole and just use a trekking pole with a pole jack it brings the weight down to 24 oz.

 

[luke moffat]

I'm right at 29 ounces all inclusive. That is including 16 stakes ( 8 mini groundhog stakes and 8-9" MSR twister stakes). If I don't bring the pole and just use a trekking pole with a pole jack it brings the weight down to 24 oz.

Right on...pretty similar for sure!!! Excellent little shelters for the weight.

 

[Ramshead]

[]

Right on...pretty similar for sure!!! Excellent little shelters for the weight.

One more contender at that weight is the Ruta Locura Lone Peak at 29 oz including CF pole and stakes. All three mentioned are nice shelters with fantastic volume to weight.

 

[Mike7]

Don't be afraid of floorless shelters! These are my observations after having used most of the shelter types mentioned above. As Luke preaches, there is no perfect shelter for all conditions, but some shelters definitely have a greater ability to accomodate for a wider range of conditions more comfortably...which is nice for those of us who have not yet accumulated the stable of shelters that Luke has.


1) I find that tarps are the most versatile and most comfortable, in wet conditions particularly. Pyramid type tarps which include peak vents are my current favorite for maximizing space to wt ratio, protection, and still maximizing ventilation when needed. These shelters can allow for as much or as little "low to high" ventilation as a person wants. I have absolutely no problems with condensation or with pitching right on top of swampy or brushy ground with these shelters. In fact, a well placed bush inside of the shelter is nice for hanging socks and base layers on overnight. An ultralight bug bigy can be used inside of the shelter if it is really buggy, or used outside of the shelter in nice but buggy weather for a comfortable nap in the shade of a tree. If you don't need bug protection, a light section of ground tarp can keep your bedding and gear completely dry even if you pitch right over a drainage area in a storm. A person can come into the shelter during a storm and still keep the ground tarp & gear completely clean and dry. The pitch can be varied to accomodate for the wind/weather conditions.


2) Tipis are great with a stove. They seem to do well managing smoke and heat. In some conditions there can be a lot of condensation without a stove or liner, even with a peak vent in place. The useable space to weight is not quite as good as a tarp and the pitching options are much more limited by the ground/site makeup. Pitching a Tipi on deep snow is somewhat of a pain, especially if you are going to move it daily (My tipi required about 15 snow anchors, where I could get away with only 4 if I had to for pitching my pyramid, as long as there is no significant wind).


3) Free-standing tents. Great for pitching on ice/frozen ground. The heaviest generally for available space. What falls or blows out of the sky into the shelter or what gets tracked into the shelter stays in the shelter. Unable to be easily used to glass from. Limited ventilation, so not a great place to retreat from bugs on a hot day. My least favorite in wet conditions.

 

[AK Troutbum]

This is what I'm talking about. This includes all stakes, plus extras.

 

[luke moffat]

Very nice looking troutbum!!! I like the green for sure!!! Seems the shelters look and weigh dang near the same!!!

How many nights you got in that bad boy?

 

[Mike7]

Troutbum, that is a nice shelter. Have you had two guys with gear in it yet? With 16 tieouts instead of 11, that thing is really not going anywhere in the wind. I have been eyeballing the MLD Duomid XL in cuben...similar in size but offset pole which would be nice for when my wife and I go backpacking. Then we can be on the wider side and throw the dogs on the other.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I have zero time in it, in fact, that's the first time I've ever set it up lol. I had a BPWD Pyratent in cuben that I used a lot and really liked it but, I ended up picking this one up about a month ago and sold the Pyratent. I don't have any first-hand experience with MLD shelters but, from what I hear, they make a very good product.. I can tell you for sure that this HMG is way better built than the BPWD but, they're quite a bit more expensive also. Using that Pyratent definitely sold me on cuben fiber though.

 

[luke moffat]

I have zero time in it, in fact, that's the first time I've ever set it up lol. I had a BPWD Pyratent in cuben that I used a lot and really liked it but, I ended up picking this one up about a month ago and sold the Pyratent. I don't have any first-hand experience with MLD shelters but, from what I hear, they are very well made shelters. I can tell you for sure that this HMG is way better built than the BPWD but, there quite a bit more expensive also. Using that Pyratent definitely sold me on cuben fiber though.

I hear ya! Looking at the fit/finish on the nest I bought from MLD vs. BPWD I can say the sewing does seem to be a bit cleaner from MLD.

That said for how little I will be using this shelter (primarily on the odd chance I am going solo or just a emergency bivy for 2 people) the cheaper price was what steered me to bearpaw over HMG.

Certainly not sold on cuben for all applications but for niche this shelter fills it certainly makes sense.

 

[mtnclimber]

Certainly not sold on cuben for all applications but for niche this shelter fills it certainly makes sense.

Why do you say that?

just curious because i don't know a whole lot about the fabric and may buy a 7x9 cuben tarp to replace my sil nylon one. will save me 7oz

 

[aron]

You can use a stick if your below tree line. I purchased a carbon fiber pole from Ruta Locura that I can adjust from 60-68", breaks down pretty small and, weighs 5.5 oz. Combine this with my cuben fiber Hyperlite Mountain Gear Ultamid 2 and, the total wt. of the shelter with pole, and guy lines is 23 oz. That's for a 64 sq ft shelter. You won't find a freestanding tent anywhere near that size that's anywhere near that light. I also think that when it comes to weathering high winds and heavy snows, it's pretty hard to beat a mid.

Have you found the carbon fiber pole to be pretty durable? That's my hesitation with them. The weight reduction over aluminum would be great.

 

[Ramshead]

Why do you say that?

just curious because i don't know a whole lot about the fabric and may buy a 7x9 cuben tarp to replace my sil nylon one. will save me 7oz

Personally I have been reluctant to buy a cuben tarp because I find cuben not very abrasion resistant and will show wear if rubbing against brush on a breezy day whereas silnylon is pretty bomber. I had to repair my cuben duomid where the bottom edge abraided against a rock after a couple of very windy days. Easy fix though with cuben tape.