Flintlock and patched roundball performance

[2Stamp]

Regarding patch thickness, those are great questions. It also makes me wonder what common patch cloth would have actually been like then, right at the dawn of machine textile weaving, both in weave density and in material thickness. As well as just consistency. I mean, was there a standardized "patch cloth" they had access to, or was it kind of a get-what-you-can type of situation?

My belief is there was no standardized patching material. And they used what they could find. Sure they likely found a favorite for their rifle with what was commonly available.

(Caveat, it's been a while since I dove into many of them so there may be new info I'm not tracking on).

If you look at trade lists, store inventories or even estate listings there doesn't seem to be "one type of cloth" that was constantly listed, that could be construed as being used for dedicated patching. Hemp was a very common cloth listed. Calico (was it just a pattern type or a material type?). Muslin, but it was cotton and more expensive. And wool stroud. Stroud would have been too think for a rifle unless the bal was more undersized (but would work in a fowler) and likely more expensive.

Pillow ticking was used for beds, but was it really available at a trade store on the frontier or at rendezvous? So in my mind that would leave hemp cloth. And did they have a particular "feel" they liked to get close to their ideal thickness? Or just got what they could, would shoot the rifle and see how it shot and decided "that'll do". Does make you wonder.

Just my .02

 

[MallardSX2]

I always used 75 weighed grains of 3-F down the bore (1:66 Hawken) and a patched homemade roundballs. My grandfather cast them out of battery lead that he extracted from car batteries over an open fire.....

Surprisingly, Colon cancer was what actually took him down in 84 but I still use those battery-balls he cast.

Always loved the flintlock tradition.

 

[Formidilosus]

20 shots and a clean.

Swabbed with boiling water- almost nothing came out. Then breech scraper- almost nothing.


Top left to right, scraper- then center patch was wrapped around swab with boiling water and scrubbed well. Then bottom left to right.



Water that the swab was dipped and cleaned in. Barely tinged.



I am fully open to be a complete idiot later, but so far spit patches and Swiss black powder- has been a non issue with cleaning and/or shooting.

 

[squirrel]

So it really brings into question.... What was their accuracy truly like on a day to day basis? How would Daniel Boone have barked all those squirrels if he didn't have his 0.020 patching with him but had to use 0.018 and also didn't have his bore in the exact condition of when he regulated his sights?

Same way I got the fourth teal... while aiming at the lead teal. He made up the story after the facts were verified. This is not a new concept amongst shooters.

 

[RockAndSage]

20 shots and a clean.

Swabbed with boiling water- almost nothing came out. Then breech scraper- almost nothing.
View attachment 1019416

Top left to right, scraper- then center patch was wrapped around swab with boiling water and scrubbed well. Then bottom left to right.
View attachment 1019411


Water that the swab was dipped and cleaned in. Barely tinged.
View attachment 1019418


I am fully open to be a complete idiot later, but so far spit patches and Swiss black powder- has been a non issue with cleaning and/or shooting.

That is, by far, the cleanest I have ever seen patches come out after 20 rounds.

I've never shot Swiss, only Goex, but 3-5 rounds would have patches coming out 2x darker than the darkest patch you have there.

 

[HighUintas]

That is, by far, the cleanest I have ever seen patches come out after 20 rounds.

I've never shot Swiss, only Goex, but 3-5 rounds would have patches coming out 2x darker than the darkest patch you have there.

Swiss shoots super clean. I use 100gr 2f swiss in my 58. It's about the same when cleaning after many many shots. Super tight patch/ball combo helps because you basically swab the bore as you're loading and it gets blown out when firing. The only buildup is a little bit at the breech.

Schuetzen 2f is another story. It's like hard black tar comes out when cleaning.

 

[RockAndSage]

Swiss shoots super clean. I use 100gr 2f swiss in my 58. It's about the same when cleaning after many many shots. Super tight patch/ball combo helps because you basically swab the bore as you're loading and it gets blown out when firing. The only buildup is a little bit at the breech.

Schuetzen 2f is another story. It's like hard black tar comes out when cleaning.

That's really good to know. The only stuff I ever remember seeing at all as a kid was Goex, but have heard nothing but good in the last few years of paying attention again about Swiss. This lack of fouling makes it a slam-dunk though.

 

[2Stamp]

Swiss shoots super clean. I use 100gr 2f swiss in my 58. It's about the same when cleaning after many many shots. Super tight patch/ball combo helps because you basically swab the bore as you're loading and it gets blown out when firing. The only buildup is a little bit at the breech.

Schuetzen 2f is another story. It's like hard black tar comes out when cleaning.

I need to find some Swiss. Now Elephant, that stuff is also black tar. It was so dirty I dumped 2 lbs out in our garden.

 

[HighUintas]

20 shots and a clean.

Swabbed with boiling water- almost nothing came out. Then breech scraper- almost nothing.
View attachment 1019416

Top left to right, scraper- then center patch was wrapped around swab with boiling water and scrubbed well. Then bottom left to right.
View attachment 1019411


Water that the swab was dipped and cleaned in. Barely tinged.
View attachment 1019418


I am fully open to be a complete idiot later, but so far spit patches and Swiss black powder- has been a non issue with cleaning and/or shooting.

Who made the barrel? GM, Rice, or colerain?

I have endless rust issues with mine if I use any water. I've tried everything I've heard of that's water based and nothing works except only cleaning with hoppes BP cleaner. Not sure why. Haven't tried cleaning with spit patches though.

 

[HighUintas]

I need to find some Swiss. Now Elephant, that stuff is also black tar. It was so dirty I dumped 2 lbs out in our garden.

Given what the price has become, I figured I'll suffer through the rest of my schtzen and not buy it again

 

[Formidilosus]

Who made the barrel? GM, Rice, or colerain?

I have no idea.

 

[majg1234]

Good thread on rok lok's!!!

Some good info ,some well maybe OK,I've been shooting flinters for about 15yrs now with pretty good success,started with SB trade style guns then moved on up to custom stuff.

I have .40, 58 and 50 cal long rifles along with 20gauge trade gun and a Griffin style 16ga fowler.All these are flinters,we don't need to go into all the cappers.

I have found the quality of flint to be important also the geometry of the lock and where the touch hole is bored to be critical.My flinters are generally 99% reliable but it was a work in progress for each one to become that reliable,The 40cal ,58cal and 50 have all taken white tale.
The smooth bore 20 likewise and has accounted for several turkey,rabbits,squirels and MTN grouse,dove and one Duck.

Good luck with the journey!!!

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

Any favorite cleaning rods for muzzies?